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	<title>Comments on: A &#8216;24&#8242; 180</title>
	<atom:link href="http://susiemadrak.com/2007/02/27/16/18/a-24-180/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2007/02/27/16/18/a-24-180/</link>
	<description>Keeping a jaundiced eye on the corporate media.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 12:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Inside the USA &#187; Génération torture</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2007/02/27/16/18/a-24-180/#comment-125340</link>
		<dc:creator>Inside the USA &#187; Génération torture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 22:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/2007/02/27/16/18/a-24-360/#comment-125340</guid>
		<description>[...] série 24, ŕ la rencontre des producteurs de la série la plus controversée, afin de les alerter sur les dangers des méthodes de l&#8217;agent Jack Bauer :  Finnegan said: &#8216;I&#8217;d like them to stop. They [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] série 24, ŕ la rencontre des producteurs de la série la plus controversée, afin de les alerter sur les dangers des méthodes de l&#8217;agent Jack Bauer :  Finnegan said: &#8216;I&#8217;d like them to stop. They [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael D Miles</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2007/02/27/16/18/a-24-180/#comment-125202</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael D Miles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 14:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/2007/02/27/16/18/a-24-360/#comment-125202</guid>
		<description>I love this show!!  I await each show breathlessly, and at each show end, am aware that the next show is 167 hours away.  So I am not this liberal weenie who objects to the show. 

But the General has it right, I think, by noting that 24 normalizes torture, which according to all of the international conventions is illegal and immoral.  To the extent that we in the US regard torture as an acceptable means to an end, we have to remember that what is good for the goose is also good for the gander, and our acceptance of torture as a legitmate tool means that others can use it too, and against us.  I am guessing that that is part of what the general has in mind.  

As blood and guts mayhem oriented videogames demonstrably desnsitize players to violence, so does repeated graphic and sympathetic portrayals of torture normalize torture.

As I watch 24, I am reminded that this is Dick Cheney's favorite show, which is reason enough to give me pause to consider why, and what values it endorses, like torture being an acceptable tool of war.  It is not, and 24 ought to back off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love this show!!  I await each show breathlessly, and at each show end, am aware that the next show is 167 hours away.  So I am not this liberal weenie who objects to the show. </p>
<p>But the General has it right, I think, by noting that 24 normalizes torture, which according to all of the international conventions is illegal and immoral.  To the extent that we in the US regard torture as an acceptable means to an end, we have to remember that what is good for the goose is also good for the gander, and our acceptance of torture as a legitmate tool means that others can use it too, and against us.  I am guessing that that is part of what the general has in mind.  </p>
<p>As blood and guts mayhem oriented videogames demonstrably desnsitize players to violence, so does repeated graphic and sympathetic portrayals of torture normalize torture.</p>
<p>As I watch 24, I am reminded that this is Dick Cheney&#8217;s favorite show, which is reason enough to give me pause to consider why, and what values it endorses, like torture being an acceptable tool of war.  It is not, and 24 ought to back off.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. S</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2007/02/27/16/18/a-24-180/#comment-125179</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 20:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/2007/02/27/16/18/a-24-360/#comment-125179</guid>
		<description>So "24" has &lt;a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/28/army-torture-24/" rel="nofollow"&gt;no influence&lt;/a&gt;, huh?

&lt;blockquote&gt;In a new interview with Newsweek, former U.S. Army specialist Tony Lagouranis, who left the military with an honorable discharge in 2005, confirms Finnegans fears â€” that U.S. soldiers did take cues from 24 to torture prisoners:

Interrogators didnâ€™t have guidance from the military on what to do because we were told that the Geneva Conventions didnâ€™t apply any more. So our training was obsolete, and we were encouraged to be creative. We turned to television and movies to look for ways of interrogating. I can say that I saw that with myself, also. I would adopt the posture of the television or movie interrogator, thinking that establishing that simple power arrangement, establishing absolute power over the detainee, would force him to break.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Just so we're clear, I'm not advocating censorship or cancellation of the show. But I'll say the same thing that I say when fundies complain that sex on TV is corrupting their children: Be parents. Provide guidance. The military shouldn't have to rely on a friggin' actor to tell soldiers, cadets, etc. what their superior officers and civilian leadership should be telling them: that torturing detainees is morally wrong, doesn't provide useful information and ultimately puts American troops in danger. But when the Bush administration declared the Geneva Conventions "quaint" and "obsolete," it failed to provide guidance about what is and isn't acceptable behavior. So the troops got their cues wherever they could get them, much like children whose parents won't teach them about sex. And, like with those unguided children, much of the information they got turned out to be wrong.

As for your complaint about "West Point military academy," note that in the source article, the words "military" and "academy" are lower case, indicating that they are not part of the formal title of the academy. So the original article didn't get the formal name of the institution wrong, it just didn't use it. If you'd like to debate this irrelevant point further, feel free to contact the Indo-Asian News Service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So &#8220;24&#8243; has <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/28/army-torture-24/" rel="nofollow">no influence</a>, huh?</p>
<blockquote><p>In a new interview with Newsweek, former U.S. Army specialist Tony Lagouranis, who left the military with an honorable discharge in 2005, confirms Finnegans fears â€” that U.S. soldiers did take cues from 24 to torture prisoners:</p>
<p>Interrogators didnâ€™t have guidance from the military on what to do because we were told that the Geneva Conventions didnâ€™t apply any more. So our training was obsolete, and we were encouraged to be creative. We turned to television and movies to look for ways of interrogating. I can say that I saw that with myself, also. I would adopt the posture of the television or movie interrogator, thinking that establishing that simple power arrangement, establishing absolute power over the detainee, would force him to break.</p></blockquote>
<p>Just so we&#8217;re clear, I&#8217;m not advocating censorship or cancellation of the show. But I&#8217;ll say the same thing that I say when fundies complain that sex on TV is corrupting their children: Be parents. Provide guidance. The military shouldn&#8217;t have to rely on a friggin&#8217; actor to tell soldiers, cadets, etc. what their superior officers and civilian leadership should be telling them: that torturing detainees is morally wrong, doesn&#8217;t provide useful information and ultimately puts American troops in danger. But when the Bush administration declared the Geneva Conventions &#8220;quaint&#8221; and &#8220;obsolete,&#8221; it failed to provide guidance about what is and isn&#8217;t acceptable behavior. So the troops got their cues wherever they could get them, much like children whose parents won&#8217;t teach them about sex. And, like with those unguided children, much of the information they got turned out to be wrong.</p>
<p>As for your complaint about &#8220;West Point military academy,&#8221; note that in the source article, the words &#8220;military&#8221; and &#8220;academy&#8221; are lower case, indicating that they are not part of the formal title of the academy. So the original article didn&#8217;t get the formal name of the institution wrong, it just didn&#8217;t use it. If you&#8217;d like to debate this irrelevant point further, feel free to contact the Indo-Asian News Service.</p>
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		<title>By: CB</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2007/02/27/16/18/a-24-180/#comment-125174</link>
		<dc:creator>CB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 17:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/2007/02/27/16/18/a-24-360/#comment-125174</guid>
		<description>Give it a break.....and what about the "Duke". Should our kids go out and start shooting "native americans"? What about his dad? Should Dr's. and nurse's start drinking and copulating when doing surgery?  ITS TELEVISION....Can you spell television?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Give it a break&#8230;..and what about the &#8220;Duke&#8221;. Should our kids go out and start shooting &#8220;native americans&#8221;? What about his dad? Should Dr&#8217;s. and nurse&#8217;s start drinking and copulating when doing surgery?  ITS TELEVISION&#8230;.Can you spell television?</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2007/02/27/16/18/a-24-180/#comment-125171</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/2007/02/27/16/18/a-24-360/#comment-125171</guid>
		<description>"West Point military academy"?  It's actually called the United States Military Academy, dimwits.  Other than the four or five cadets in the Corps of Cadets who adhere to the religious cult calling itself the Democrat party, no one at West Point is influenced by the fiction of "24" or any other television show.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;West Point military academy&#8221;?  It&#8217;s actually called the United States Military Academy, dimwits.  Other than the four or five cadets in the Corps of Cadets who adhere to the religious cult calling itself the Democrat party, no one at West Point is influenced by the fiction of &#8220;24&#8243; or any other television show.</p>
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		<title>By: Bladerunner</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2007/02/27/16/18/a-24-180/#comment-125155</link>
		<dc:creator>Bladerunner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 06:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/2007/02/27/16/18/a-24-360/#comment-125155</guid>
		<description>Just stop watching TV. Can we not understand the difference between the real world and a play, a moving picture?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just stop watching TV. Can we not understand the difference between the real world and a play, a moving picture?</p>
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		<title>By: AJ Lynch</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2007/02/27/16/18/a-24-180/#comment-125144</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ Lynch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 22:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/2007/02/27/16/18/a-24-360/#comment-125144</guid>
		<description>It's just a TV show - suggest you take your meds and relax.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s just a TV show - suggest you take your meds and relax.</p>
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		<title>By: Think Progress &#187; Army wants Jack Bauer to speak out against torture.</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2007/02/27/16/18/a-24-180/#comment-125143</link>
		<dc:creator>Think Progress &#187; Army wants Jack Bauer to speak out against torture.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 22:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/2007/02/27/16/18/a-24-360/#comment-125143</guid>
		<description>[...] Army has invited Kiefer Sutherland, star of the hit TV show 24 and opponent of torture, to come and discuss why it is wrong to torture prisoners. Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan also recently pleaded with the makers of the show to cut down [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Army has invited Kiefer Sutherland, star of the hit TV show 24 and opponent of torture, to come and discuss why it is wrong to torture prisoners. Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan also recently pleaded with the makers of the show to cut down [...]</p>
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