Depends where you live I think. In west philadelphia, the thrift stores are awash in the worn-only-once cast off sneakers of African American teenagers. I’m currently wearing a brand new pair of vans I bought for $3.50. My last pair were all leather Adidas that were essentially brand new: cost, $5.00.

I try to buy all my clothes at the thrift store: I get brand names, and none of the money goes to a sweat shop in the Marianas.

That’s fine to say, but when it’s time to buy groceries for the kids, most people will buy on credit rather than tell the kids they can’t eat. Also, I can’t count the number of times I needed gas to get to work but didn’t have money in the bank to pay for it. Or last winter when our water pump broke…

Not to mention the fact that it’s damn hard to be surrounded by wealth but to not have enough money to buy shoes when the ones I wear to my office job are so worn out that they have chunks falling off around the holes.

Also… being poor makes things cost more in the long run. I needed an economy car to commute to work. Bought one, ten years old, and although it supposedly “runs great,” it actually needed the engine replaced. I could not afford even a rebuilt engine, so I got a used one with 78k miles on it. It might be good or might be junk. I’m doing all the work myself, none of which I’ve done before, because I can’t afford to pay someone to do it. In the end this will likely cost me more than if I was able to buy a decent used car in the beginning.

I agree that credit is very dangerous, but it’s preferable to my kids going hungry, or cold, etc. Remember the kid recently who died of a tooth infection? Better to put the dental work on credit than have a kid die of poverty.

Furthermore, when it comes to the impact of bankruptcies on the national economy, it is the bankruptcies of large corporations that do the real damage, far more than consumer debt.

Yet the Bill passed in the Congress makes it easier for corporations to declare bankruptcy, and more difficult for ordinary people. Why? Well, ordinary people don’t have the deep pockets that the credit card industry does.

All I said was that I agreed with DBK that it’s better not to carry a credit card balance. I said nothing at all about whether the people who run up debts are fools or victims. There are doubtless plenty of fools our there, but plenty of victims as well.

Let’s see–trying to reconstruct from memory, I was simply noting that for a large number of Americans, long-term “wealth” is often a function of real estate appreciation, which is usually purchased on credit.

Of course, it helps if the mortgage is fixed-rate, as mine is (and, full disclosure: it took me roughly a dozen years to clear up some credit problems that were partly my own fault, and partly an identity theft issue). Anyway, between the tax break and hopefully the appreciation of the property over time, it’d be nice to break even, or even gain a bit (and, another full disclosure: I don’t want to lose money, but my house isn’t solely an investment vehicle–I intend to live there for, well, the duration, as best as I can tell). If it’s a small loss (and I do wonder about that: I’ll be paying roughly three times the loan’s value over the life of it), well, I feel like I can live with that, because it’s not money totally down the drain, like a rent check (and I trust other investment instruments less, to be honest…or maybe I don’t trust my judgement with other investments).

By the way, even as I warily eye the ominous rumblings in the real estate market, I appreciate all the more the frustrations expressed especially by African-Americans as to practices like red-lining, which has cut millions of people off of what traditionally has been a means of economic advancement. Racism isn’t always the Bull Connor variety…

Having pulled myself out of the credit dog-house after a twelve year battle (partly my own fault, partly an identity theft issue), I’m into the second year of a standard mortgage on a small house that, as best as I can tell right now, I intend to keep through retirement. By the time I’m done paying, of course, I’ll have given the bank about three times as much money as the loan’s face value, but hopefully the house will appreciate to the point that it’s at least a break-even thing (even if it’s a small loss, I still think it’s a better deal than, say, thirty years of rent…and I trust other investments even less, to be honest).

And, at least for now, I’m getting an awfully hefty tax break.

But…as real estate collapses, and as the exotic varities of mortgages end up slamming people, it makes me wonder about wealth-generation for subsequent generations. It also makes me all the more aware of the frustrations expressed by African-Americans and others re: redlining/other difficulties in obtaining mortgages. Racism isn’t always just the ugly, Bull Connor variety.

Another thing is those home equity loans. Mrs DBK and I have used them to make improvements on the house (new windows lowered our energy consumption significantly), but we stayed within our means always and paid that down in months.

The bottom line is that debt is very bad for your financial health and a wise person minimizes debt as much as possible.

Except sneakers. You can’t buy used sneakers if you use them for athletic purposes. So I hold my nose and go someplace like Kohl’s where I can get them at a discount and I just try really hard not to think about where they come from. I wish there were such a thing as affordable, environmental, ethical, performance sneakers. Sigh…some day.