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	<title>Comments on: True or False?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/</link>
	<description>Keeping a jaundiced eye on the corporate media.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 02:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Brian762X39</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/#comment-130079</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian762X39</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 15:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/#comment-130079</guid>
		<description>I agree totally. We have been led to believe that there is a difference between political parties.
Just another illusion manufactured to make us believe that they are "Doing something".

The Democratic Leadership Conference is just another bunch of Status-Quo "Inside-the-Beltway"
Kabuki dancers.

Hillary Clinton is best friends with Rupert Murdoch. What does that tell you?

Another great example is Barbara Fienstien. Her
husband has made millions as a "DC Consultant".

Can we honestly expect anyone, Democratic or Republican to "Bite the Hand that Feeds Them?"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree totally. We have been led to believe that there is a difference between political parties.<br />
Just another illusion manufactured to make us believe that they are &#8220;Doing something&#8221;.</p>
<p>The Democratic Leadership Conference is just another bunch of Status-Quo &#8220;Inside-the-Beltway&#8221;<br />
Kabuki dancers.</p>
<p>Hillary Clinton is best friends with Rupert Murdoch. What does that tell you?</p>
<p>Another great example is Barbara Fienstien. Her<br />
husband has made millions as a &#8220;DC Consultant&#8221;.</p>
<p>Can we honestly expect anyone, Democratic or Republican to &#8220;Bite the Hand that Feeds Them?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: barb</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/#comment-130059</link>
		<dc:creator>barb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 05:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/#comment-130059</guid>
		<description>I'm exposed to a number of people who share Arthur's beliefs. Most are very entertaining and articulate. Not one does anything meaningful to effect change in any way because they believe unless the change equals revolution that leads to perfection, it's not worth it. I used to think that way too, being another 60s specimen.

Now I think incremental change and chipping away does some good and that working within the political system to try and get some mitigation of the worst of it is well worth it, even if only a few measures I support get through. You have to start somewhere and you have to work with the hand you're dealt and with the flawed human nature that plagues all of us. Politicians have their good and bad points and the business they are in is brutal and treacherous. To stay in it, they must placate many, many different interests and power blocs, as well as balance them. Sometimes they can get one or two valuable things accomplished amidst the deal making.

Standing back and mocking bloggers and activists who try hard to the best of their abilities to get something moving is, to me, a rather cowardly, arrogant and lazy practice. No one benefits. Not one person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m exposed to a number of people who share Arthur&#8217;s beliefs. Most are very entertaining and articulate. Not one does anything meaningful to effect change in any way because they believe unless the change equals revolution that leads to perfection, it&#8217;s not worth it. I used to think that way too, being another 60s specimen.</p>
<p>Now I think incremental change and chipping away does some good and that working within the political system to try and get some mitigation of the worst of it is well worth it, even if only a few measures I support get through. You have to start somewhere and you have to work with the hand you&#8217;re dealt and with the flawed human nature that plagues all of us. Politicians have their good and bad points and the business they are in is brutal and treacherous. To stay in it, they must placate many, many different interests and power blocs, as well as balance them. Sometimes they can get one or two valuable things accomplished amidst the deal making.</p>
<p>Standing back and mocking bloggers and activists who try hard to the best of their abilities to get something moving is, to me, a rather cowardly, arrogant and lazy practice. No one benefits. Not one person.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim in Raleigh</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/#comment-130058</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim in Raleigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 05:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/#comment-130058</guid>
		<description>I think Arthur is right in noting that most of us; including me; have beliefs that are extremely resistant to logical discussion. Generally these beliefs become personal dogma which we dare not question. And so we operate; each of us; in our personal warped reality.

Most of us also require validation; and so we will unconsciously adjust our dogma to fit into whatever organization we wish to belong. If the adjustment proves too wrenching we may choose to reexamine these deep seated beliefs, pile more denial on top of them, find some outlet that allows us to ignore the discomfort or simply change our venue to one that accomodates our beliefs.

At this point I have to take exception with Arthur. I think he generalizes in assuming each person in the organization has the same belief and driving force. I see each of us fitting into an organization's structure as uniquely distorted. We do not have the same motivations; although there may be substantial overlap.

In Congress, we have essentially two competing factions with marginally different dogmas  underlying their legislative priorities. And, by and large, our elected Congress critters find their niche. And the operating methods for each faction have been relatively unchanged since the Newt revolution. 

There is, at present, no reason for the Republcans to change their operating method. They view it as a winning strategy; although it might in the long run prove to be a pyrrhic victory.

The challenge for the Democrats is to identify the changes needed in their method and underlying dogma so as to achieve their own winning strategy. For me this would include the liberal application of extented debate on any important bill where the Republicans defeat a cloture vote. If they want to filibuster, let them! Just make sure that the details and beneficiaries of the bill receive extensive coverage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Arthur is right in noting that most of us; including me; have beliefs that are extremely resistant to logical discussion. Generally these beliefs become personal dogma which we dare not question. And so we operate; each of us; in our personal warped reality.</p>
<p>Most of us also require validation; and so we will unconsciously adjust our dogma to fit into whatever organization we wish to belong. If the adjustment proves too wrenching we may choose to reexamine these deep seated beliefs, pile more denial on top of them, find some outlet that allows us to ignore the discomfort or simply change our venue to one that accomodates our beliefs.</p>
<p>At this point I have to take exception with Arthur. I think he generalizes in assuming each person in the organization has the same belief and driving force. I see each of us fitting into an organization&#8217;s structure as uniquely distorted. We do not have the same motivations; although there may be substantial overlap.</p>
<p>In Congress, we have essentially two competing factions with marginally different dogmas  underlying their legislative priorities. And, by and large, our elected Congress critters find their niche. And the operating methods for each faction have been relatively unchanged since the Newt revolution. </p>
<p>There is, at present, no reason for the Republcans to change their operating method. They view it as a winning strategy; although it might in the long run prove to be a pyrrhic victory.</p>
<p>The challenge for the Democrats is to identify the changes needed in their method and underlying dogma so as to achieve their own winning strategy. For me this would include the liberal application of extented debate on any important bill where the Republicans defeat a cloture vote. If they want to filibuster, let them! Just make sure that the details and beneficiaries of the bill receive extensive coverage.</p>
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		<title>By: Salmo</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/#comment-130055</link>
		<dc:creator>Salmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 02:48:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/#comment-130055</guid>
		<description>True.  I worked for a lot of years in government - mostly state and local, but I had plenty of contact with elected officials of both parties and at all levels.  The need for power was paramount in almost all of them.  That having been said, the Democrats were generally less corrupt than the Republicans at the State and Federal level and party labels made little difference at the local level.  It's also true that elected officials moral compasses are often way off.  Certainly on sexual matters (true for both sexes, although with fewer women in power they committed fewer outrageous acts) and financial matters.  Pecos is right too - working with what we have is really all that there is for a way out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True.  I worked for a lot of years in government - mostly state and local, but I had plenty of contact with elected officials of both parties and at all levels.  The need for power was paramount in almost all of them.  That having been said, the Democrats were generally less corrupt than the Republicans at the State and Federal level and party labels made little difference at the local level.  It&#8217;s also true that elected officials moral compasses are often way off.  Certainly on sexual matters (true for both sexes, although with fewer women in power they committed fewer outrageous acts) and financial matters.  Pecos is right too - working with what we have is really all that there is for a way out.</p>
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		<title>By: pecos</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/#comment-130052</link>
		<dc:creator>pecos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 01:54:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/#comment-130052</guid>
		<description>Well, yeah, Arthur's right in much that he says, but what's the action step?  I'm old enough to remember the 60s (which took place in the 70s) when a lot of people gave up on "mainstream" politics and dropped out, or marched in the streets, or moved to Vermont and lived in a commune, or went underground, or tried to start at third or fourth or fifth party, and what was the reuslt?  Some never returned to the mainstream fray, but others came to feel that putting one's energy into a party so pure it could only have three members was just so much navel gazing, and decided it was better to come back to try and chip away at the margins than to opt out of the game altogether.  
So there are a lot of times I feel that Arthur is crystalizing my feelings, but I'm still left with the question, what's the strategy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, yeah, Arthur&#8217;s right in much that he says, but what&#8217;s the action step?  I&#8217;m old enough to remember the 60s (which took place in the 70s) when a lot of people gave up on &#8220;mainstream&#8221; politics and dropped out, or marched in the streets, or moved to Vermont and lived in a commune, or went underground, or tried to start at third or fourth or fifth party, and what was the reuslt?  Some never returned to the mainstream fray, but others came to feel that putting one&#8217;s energy into a party so pure it could only have three members was just so much navel gazing, and decided it was better to come back to try and chip away at the margins than to opt out of the game altogether.<br />
So there are a lot of times I feel that Arthur is crystalizing my feelings, but I&#8217;m still left with the question, what&#8217;s the strategy?</p>
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		<title>By: Rob_in_Hawaii</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/#comment-130050</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob_in_Hawaii</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/#comment-130050</guid>
		<description>Sure, there is a good deal of truth to what Arthur says.  That's partly why I found myself, at first, becoming persuaded by his post.

On further reflection, however, his is far too cynical a conclusion about Democratic politicians for me.  For example, are we to believe that "elites," such as John Edwards, are merely pandering for the progressive vote with their calls for economic justice and universal health care?  Is it all just a smokescreen for their true agenda of world military domination and domestic oppression?  Or is John Edwards' earnest program for America's future the one aspect of his political career that disqualifies him from inclusion into the exclusive club of "elites"?

Politics, as practiced in the real world as opposed to the theoretical one, is about compromise.  And this compromise is often ugly.  Candidates are frequently disingenuous when they are not flat out lying.  But that does not mean that all of them, especially my fellow travelers in the Democratic party, are without genuine core beliefs.  Their elite socio-economic status does not automatically make them beholden to a secret program of perpetuating the privilege of their class.

Yes, I wish Democratic politicians would grow stiffer spines and negoitiate with their Republican adversaries as if their (and our) very lives depended on it.  Because they do.  But I'm not willing to throw in the towel quite yet and accuse the Democratic party of having become co-opted by the same dark vision that makes Republicans such a force for evil.

Despite the very real failure of the party to implement the full progressive agenda, history provides too many examples of the triumph of reform under Democratic administrations to give up hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, there is a good deal of truth to what Arthur says.  That&#8217;s partly why I found myself, at first, becoming persuaded by his post.</p>
<p>On further reflection, however, his is far too cynical a conclusion about Democratic politicians for me.  For example, are we to believe that &#8220;elites,&#8221; such as John Edwards, are merely pandering for the progressive vote with their calls for economic justice and universal health care?  Is it all just a smokescreen for their true agenda of world military domination and domestic oppression?  Or is John Edwards&#8217; earnest program for America&#8217;s future the one aspect of his political career that disqualifies him from inclusion into the exclusive club of &#8220;elites&#8221;?</p>
<p>Politics, as practiced in the real world as opposed to the theoretical one, is about compromise.  And this compromise is often ugly.  Candidates are frequently disingenuous when they are not flat out lying.  But that does not mean that all of them, especially my fellow travelers in the Democratic party, are without genuine core beliefs.  Their elite socio-economic status does not automatically make them beholden to a secret program of perpetuating the privilege of their class.</p>
<p>Yes, I wish Democratic politicians would grow stiffer spines and negoitiate with their Republican adversaries as if their (and our) very lives depended on it.  Because they do.  But I&#8217;m not willing to throw in the towel quite yet and accuse the Democratic party of having become co-opted by the same dark vision that makes Republicans such a force for evil.</p>
<p>Despite the very real failure of the party to implement the full progressive agenda, history provides too many examples of the triumph of reform under Democratic administrations to give up hope.</p>
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		<title>By: brendan</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/#comment-130049</link>
		<dc:creator>brendan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/#comment-130049</guid>
		<description>true.
&lt;a href="http://www.lucyparsonsproject.org/writings/to_tramps.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Lucy Parsons&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>true.<br />
<a href="http://www.lucyparsonsproject.org/writings/to_tramps.html" rel="nofollow">Lucy Parsons</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: k</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/#comment-130044</link>
		<dc:creator>k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/#comment-130044</guid>
		<description>At first, I clicked away, so to not see, telling myself it was paranoid rambling. Then I went back, realizing that that line of thinking might be the sort of delusional behavior that he was talking about.
Then I got thinking, "Well, I live in Wisconsin, and we walk the walk here."
Then I got thinking about The One Ring.
There might be (probably is) a goodly portion of truth in what he says. We are, however, constrained by our inability to mind-read in our attempts to discover what evil lurks in the hearts of men (and, yeah, women, I guess, if you really want to push it). So, we are condemned then to judging people by what they say they are willing to do, and then judging them by what they have actually done. This is why elected officials lose elections, even when they are incumbents. This is why voting records are made public. This is why independent media is important.
Since the much-vaunted Public seems unwilling to protest loudly, or to rise up in arms, this is what we have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At first, I clicked away, so to not see, telling myself it was paranoid rambling. Then I went back, realizing that that line of thinking might be the sort of delusional behavior that he was talking about.<br />
Then I got thinking, &#8220;Well, I live in Wisconsin, and we walk the walk here.&#8221;<br />
Then I got thinking about The One Ring.<br />
There might be (probably is) a goodly portion of truth in what he says. We are, however, constrained by our inability to mind-read in our attempts to discover what evil lurks in the hearts of men (and, yeah, women, I guess, if you really want to push it). So, we are condemned then to judging people by what they say they are willing to do, and then judging them by what they have actually done. This is why elected officials lose elections, even when they are incumbents. This is why voting records are made public. This is why independent media is important.<br />
Since the much-vaunted Public seems unwilling to protest loudly, or to rise up in arms, this is what we have.</p>
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		<title>By: fallenmonk</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/#comment-130043</link>
		<dc:creator>fallenmonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/2007/09/26/15/13/true-or-false/#comment-130043</guid>
		<description>I am afraid to a large degree he is quite right. It just makes us so scared and weak to think so that we try and ignore the truth for as long as we can. It usually takes something pretty powerful to makes us accept some of these truths.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am afraid to a large degree he is quite right. It just makes us so scared and weak to think so that we try and ignore the truth for as long as we can. It usually takes something pretty powerful to makes us accept some of these truths.</p>
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