The guy is intelligent and speaks well.

The Iraq war is a disaster, the U.S. commits torture, the Constitution is being subverted, the Economy is in jeopardy, unwarranted search & surveillance is allowed, the environment is begging for attention and corn is selling for a buck an ear.

Is Rev. Wright so scary that every sour decision from this Administration should be pushed aside to defame those who don’t support your chosen candidate?

Nor is the issue whether African Americans would naturally find solace in a church where, unlike the larger society, they can express their grievances and tell their own stories–stories more true than ours–about their history.

Rather, the issue for me is that when you agitate from anger and hate you can cross the line, or inspire others to cross the line, into dangerous fanaticism. I would also like to think that it’s not an effective strategy for gaining power. The powerless are rightly more easily given a pass than the powerful when they agitate from anger and hate, but it’s not a pass they should take.

Given that Minister Wright used the phrase “the chickens have come home to roost” in relation to 9/11 I couldn’t help but think about the controversy over a professor here in Colorado who used the same phrase. The professor was largely right in his discourse dubunking the standard fare about “why they hate us” but he crossed the line into fanaticism when he said because America had done bad things innocent Americans deserved to die because they were not in fact innocent. Being right about the “facts”–of 9/11 or the grievances of blacks–is not the end of the analysis.

There’s something that feels similar in Minister Wright though I’m not able to think coherently enough to say what it is. It’s something to the effect that although the Minister is right about much of the history he recites (though other parts are paranoic; and when he blames the Jews there is no excuse) but the “therefore” part of it is immoral and it’s no less immoral because black people are justifiably aggrieved and angry.

I also would like to think that agitating for anger and hate is not an effective strategy. The most powerful black man in our history was Martin Luther King. His message was one of love. And I’d like to think we could learn something from Bishop Tutu and his Truth and Reconciliation Commissions, with their stories of torturers and their victims hugging and forgiving. Yes it sounds corny but there always has to be a better way, and when that better way has been found it has immensely more power than anger and hate. Minister Wright’s way deepens the divisions, causes resentment, and increases the hate. For that reason it’s wrong.

And I do wonder to what extent Obama has absorbed Minister Wright’s teachings. I always thought that the comparison of Obama to Robert Kennedy was wrong. Kennedy’s oratory was so powerful because his heart was so plain it was almost painful. I don’t see a lot of evidence of heart in Mr. Obama. If that’s true (and maybe it’s not) that’s something we should think about; and if his affiliation with Wright is a window into his soul that’s important.

Live by the sword (cross?), die by the sword. You can’t push the importance of religion, and then claim it’s really not all that important, when it’s your religion under scrutiny.

I was rather surprised the other day when I noticed a poll at the Gallup web site that said more “deeply religious” voters favor Clinton - but then I thought of my mom, a Catholic Indian who put up with years of anti-Christian treatment by her church-going Protestant in-laws. She never trusted those who felt they had to wear their religion like a badge; she looked for deeds over words. I wonder what she, a life-long Democrat, would think of all this.

Absolutely it is. Different wording, but it’s a constant and common refrain. Pat Robertson and Jerry Fallwell said this same sort of stuff, in different words, ALL THE TIME. Nobody is holding Bush “accountable” for his close association with such people… people who say we deserved 9/11, or that gays caused hurricanes or earthquakes, etc, etc.

What Obama’s pastor said was actually defensible given the perspective and context of growing up an oppressed black man and seeing the evils perpetrated on minorities in this country by the straight white males in authority. “Driving While Black” is still a very real crime in my red state. Lashing out in frustration is quite understandable. Now, powerful white men like Fallwell and his ilk lashing out in anger like that ISN’T defensible, yet the media and the citizenry accept it almost without a second thought.

I find it interesting.

I agree this has probably damaged him irrevocably, but in all honestly, it simply shouldn’t, and that it does, shows just how far we as a nation have yet to go.

axelrod has to be the dumbest guy ever to be “chief media strategist”, of anything.

all his guy had to do was get past bayh, biden, richardson and edwards, and eventually his guy would likely be the anybody but clinton candidate. having done that and gotten to the parity-accumulation phase of a two-fer (c vs abc) he put a fright wig on his guy.

only bugs bunny and elmer fudd are more surreal.

I’m gonna bet it’s just noise, Josh.

Loud, loud noise.

It’s over.

If this was just a minister with whom he had a casual relationship, it would be one thing. But this is his admitted mentor and role model - hell, he named his book after one of his speeches. You really can’t blame people for asking what it all means.

And no, “God damn America” is NOT a common refrain from the pulpit and has no Biblical antecedent that I can think of.

In fact (at least in Catholic World), it’s taking the Lord’s name in vain and calling down evil - forbidden by the Ten Commandments. Saying that God “punishes” America for her sins (which is known to happen in the fundie churches) is very different.

My problem with coverage so far is that no one is stopping to examine his statements critically. They’re just going straight to: how does this affect the election? How can he defuse it without looking like an Uncle Tom? How can he refute what is essentially true?

God DAMN America is a common refrain from every pulpit in the country. Black or white. There’s NO difference between that and: ‘9/11 was the result of our immorality’. God is DAMNING us because of:… whatever. And it’s a LOOOOONG tradition stretching as far back as Elijah. God has DAMNED israel because Jezebel worships Baal. Or whatever else. It’s wrong and sad, but this has already lost him the election. And the Democrats.

Sure, some guy that endorsed McCain said something equally ’shocking’. But it’s not the same thing, because McCain isn’t coming from that racial angle. If McCain were catholic and we could point to his priest and say the priest said something like ‘the pope’s word comes before the President’s’, then it would be a little bit equivalent. But as is, Barack can’t completely repudiate it without being an Uncle Tom. And he can’t accept it without being a Scary Black Man. And he can’t get down into it and try to debate it because everyone in Amoronica has their fucking ears closed. Even white liberals are shocked by it.

The press isn’t even looking at the content and asking whether the guy has a point or not. Not only does he have a point, he has a fucking porcupine. How can Obama walk away from that? I’d wager most every black man in the country agrees with what that minister said. You can’t be a black man in America and be as blindly patriotic as we apparently expect our leaders to be. If you are, you are an idiot. Or Colin Powell.

It was an interesting experience, asking whether America was ready for a black president. And the answer was ‘no’. Case closed. You put the ‘pledge of allegiance’ flap, the ‘first time I have been really proud’ crap, the turban slap, and the preacher trap together and you have an insurmountable situation.

The entire left is afraid to say he has a point and afraid to say he doesn’t.

No one is getting to the heart of this. We have learned that, deep down, black people don’t feel the pride of ownership in this country that some people apparently do. For a lot of very valid reasons, one of which being that a black person has never held its highest office. Obama wanted to slide in there on the basis of a surface sentiment of unity and progressive thinking. And I wanted it to. But the wounds are too deep and the facts too insurmountable. Rather than skip ahead and put the past behind us, we will have to continue the slow, hard fight for real racial equality.

The only thing that would save him would be his competitors standing up for him. If Hillary and/or McCain came out and said: hell no. Obama’s patriotism and commitment to country will not be questioned. But yeah, I’m certainly not holding my breath on that one.

But a nonsense happens when people insert religion into politics. Especially people who appear not to know much about religion. I liked it better when this population included fewer democrats.