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Classy

Apr 17th, 2008 at 9:31 pm by Susie

Obama flips Clinton the bird. No, really. Listen to the crowd:

UPDATE: And the adoring fans at Democratic Underground cheer him on for doing it…

Posted in Politics As Usual

53 Responses to “Classy”

on 17 Apr 2008 at 10:50 pm1Palomino

Wow. What a passive-aggressive, rage-a-holic little narcissist shitheel. He’s unfit even to run for the presidency, much less be elected.
on 17 Apr 2008 at 10:51 pm2steveeboy

really?

a two finger face scratch is now the bird?

time for another break!
on 17 Apr 2008 at 11:43 pm3white_n_az

here’s a better angle

RedState is all over this

What a classless jerk…he just wrote off a few more thousand votes.
on 17 Apr 2008 at 11:58 pm4dcblogger

Wow, Obama is like Bush with brians, a work ethic, and social skills.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 12:03 am5white_n_az

you’re forgetting one thing…

U-N-E-L-E-C-T-A-B-L-E

It’s an important detail
on 18 Apr 2008 at 12:24 am6Lambert Strether, Philadelphia, PA

steveebee asks:

a two finger face scratch is now the bird?

No, it’s not. Next!
Although… Wait a minute. I’ve been thinking that it was a strong argument that the crowd cheered when Obama made his gesture; after all, “in her element” isn’t really an applause line. But another Obama crowd cheered when Obama sneezed, so why wouldn’t they cheer when he scratched himself with two fingers? Damn…
on 18 Apr 2008 at 12:26 am7Lambert Strether, Philadelphia, PA

More videos Here. And see the comments. The points that the people arguing there’s nothing here are about as strong as steveebee’s, that is, not.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 12:47 am8white_n_az

I think you are selling steveeboy long…seems like your bringiton actually can articulate an intelligent argument free of talking points.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 1:40 am9Chris

Lambert, I actually found your second video to be a lot less convincing than the first. If you cats want to roll with this, you should defiantly stick with the video that’s here. Honestly, I wish he were so crass and regularly making reference to Jay-Z. It would liven shit up a little.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 7:24 am10Nancy

palomino, so true: “What a passive-aggressive, rage-a-holic little narcissist shitheel.”
words can no longer adequately express the amount of contempt i have for this man.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 8:25 am11JKFriz

One hopes this is a joke. He scratched his face with his pinky finger earlier in the speech. Does this mean he is secretly Dr. Evil?
on 18 Apr 2008 at 8:27 am12Wendy Whinner

Jeez - too too blatant - Obama is acting like some wise-ass teen. He will lose potential voters after they see this video.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 8:28 am13steveeboy

yep,

from the other angle it is even more apparent that it is a two finger scratch.

his index finger is extended too…

And, towards the beginning of the “reverse angle” he scratches his face with his pinky.

I wonder what deep significance there is in that gesture?

maybe in sudan that is a deep insult to oppressed rich white former first lady senators or something?

and for a sexist pig, obama sure does have a lot of women of all ages in his crowd. No doubt they are all self-hating and brainwashed by the patriarchy.

you people need to take a break, seriously.

you are so far off the deep end it is ridiculous.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 10:33 am14snuzy mandrake

i don’t really understand how you can criticize the MSM and/or the debates for their focus on non-substantive issues and then put up a post like this. aren’t you doing exactly what you criticize in your very next post? i mean, redstate is all over this. redstate for christs’ sake!

i thought we were better than that.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 10:47 am15JKFriz

Better angle, showing clear two-fingered scratch:
http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/4/18/102120/357/8#8

Can we take this down or rephrase, please?
on 18 Apr 2008 at 10:57 am16Bob

fercrissake, on a blog routinely raving about the idiot media not covering substantive issues and focusing instead on trivia we are exposed to a long argument regarding a face scratch. I don’t have an answer - I don’t know if it was intentional, meaningless, subconscious contempt, etc. Neither does anyone providing such definitive answers here. For what it’s worth Susie, you made a special point of saying “listen to the crowd” as though that proved something. What did it prove that the people behind him who couldn’t possibly have seen which finger he scratched his face with applauded the line enthusiastically?
If you prefer Clinton that’s fine. Please stop manufacturing outrage and pretending Obama is some school yard bully.
Christ I’ll be glad when this is all over.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 11:34 am17Chris

On reflection, I think this is actually my favorite controversy of the campaign so far. It gives us all a chance to ponder whether or not the people left shocked and dismayed by the now infamous cheek scratch are actually very stupid or if they’re just lying. Usually that question is reserved for wingnuts.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 12:13 pm18agave

I have lost alot, if not all respect, for many prominent bloggers over this campaign. sad.

.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 12:33 pm19Lambert Strether, Philadelphia, PA

Feh. Your typical crowd doesn’t react to a cheek scratch. And you can read the whole speech as an extended middle finger to Hillary anyhow — after she said he could absolutely win in the general, and that she’d do everything she could to help him. Yeah, classy guy.

Anyhow, creative classist Matt says it’s all pop culture references, so it’s cool. I guess that means we can start calling Hillary a whore again, then? Good to know.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 1:11 pm20brendancalling

Clearly two fingers Is there a retraction coming, or is that too much to ask for?
When you participate in false smears like this, and then refuse to retract them, you are as bad as the media you decry as “the enemy”.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 1:11 pm21Amelia

It’s not just the finger it’s Obama brushing Hillary off his shoulders like she was dandruff and getting Hillary dirt off his pants like she was doo doo — not in the video above but in the longer excerpts posted elsewhere. The whole tone of his remarks are shockingly immature–with apologies to the young who are actually immature in years but not nearly so twisted.

So we’re going to have a man as the Democratic nominee for president straight out of Clockwork Orange–a combination of thuggery with juvenile deliquency. No way does this man ever win.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 1:17 pm22JKFriz

Amelia, with all due respect, that doesn’t make any sense. The gesture “brushing the dirt off your shoulders” was a reference to Wednesday’s horrendous debate, the first half of which was an extended attempt by ABC to throw mud at both candidates and try to make it stick. Obama, to his credit, tried to re-focus the debate when invited to comment on Hillary’s Bosnia gaffe; Hillary, by contrast, just joined in on the pig pile with regard to Ayers, Wright, the flag pin, and just about everything else.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 1:27 pm23Lambert Strether, Philadelphia, PA

Oh for pity’s sake. Hillary saying Obama can absolutely win and saying she’d do whatever she could to help him is jumping onto the pig pile? Give me a break. Then revisit that tape and see if you don’t here denigration and insult in every frame of it. Sheesh. So much for extending an olive branch.

And as far as Obama “trying to re-focus the debate” — puh-leeze.

If you want an example of re-focusing the debate, try the President that Obama really looks up to: Reagan, with “I paid for this microphone.”

Now that refocused a debate and an entire campaign. Leaders lead. Here again, Obama didn’t. I understand that his supporters don’t like to admit that Hillary won, and have “refocused” the narrative to the moderators, with great success, but come on: She cleaned his clock, he hates to admit, and did today’s version of frat boy snark. And the crowd cheered. I know what “element” Obama is in, thank you very much.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 1:41 pm24snuzy mandrake

actually lambert, see my comment above. it seems to me you’re just jumping on the same content-less bandwagon that the MSM uses to cover this contest. you know, the stuff you are all over when anyone obsesses about clinton’s body language during her speeches, and rightly so. clinton doesn’t deserve that and neither does obama.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 1:45 pm25JKFriz

I mean that every time Gibson or Stephanopolous went after Obama with one of the manufactured controversies du jour, Hillary just built upon their arguments. When given the opportunity to do the same with Tuzla - early in the debate, incidentally - Obama basically said “let’s talk about Iraq, or the economy, or health care, or anything else instead.”

Puh-leeze yourself.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 1:52 pm26Amelia

All I can say is I had a visceral reaction to the tape–not the snippet above but the longer excerpt. It confirmed in spades that there is something wrong with the fact that Obama can’t take criticism. It made me think there really is a junior thug brigade for Obama and that a fish rots from the head down. It reminded me of comments here and there over time–who cares about choice, gay rights, support for Roberts and/or Alito–throw all progressive issues under the bus in favor of getting the man elected and then what do you have left in the end but nothing. It made me think that the psychobabble about his narcissistic personality disorder really is true. It made me think, great, another juvenile deliquent in the White House. I thought it was an amazing revelation of the man.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 2:04 pm27JKFriz

Hmmm. That wasn’t the update I expected.

This whole thing is a little like reporting on William Penn’s optical-illusion erection atop Philadelphia City Hall.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 2:13 pm28Izquierdo

Can’t we all just get along?
on 18 Apr 2008 at 3:29 pm29Bob

Amelia said “So we’re going to have a man as the Democratic nominee for president straight out of Clockwork Orange–a combination of thuggery with juvenile deliquency.” and “It confirmed in spades…”
Any of you who spend so much time parsing every word uttered by Obama, any of his staff or supporters for any tinge of sexism care to kick that one around awhile? The first legitmate African-America candidate for president is full of “thuggery” and “juvenile deliquency” and his actions don’t just confirm, but “confirm in spades…”
I don’t care who you are; that’s funny!
Lecture me again about dog-whistle politics and Obamamaniacs.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 4:11 pm30snuzy mandrake

All I can say is I had a visceral reaction to the tape–not the snippet above but the longer excerpt

really? i find that to be really strange.

and yet there are a lot of people who seem to have a similar visceral reaction to the guy, just like there are a lot of people who have a visceral reaction against clinton. personally, i think both visceral reactions are simply unfair. well, maybe you can’t help having them but they are unfair if you’re talking about making an informed vote. and, in any case, when you tell me you have such a strong gut-level reaction to a politician making a fairly standard speech at a rally, i suspect that your reaction says more about you than about obama.

once again, i simply don’t get the hostility. they’re both good, if flawed, candidates. i like obama better than clinton because his foreign policy is better, but i’d happily vote for, donate to, and work for either in the general election. the strong reactions people get just seems irrational to me
on 18 Apr 2008 at 4:29 pm31Palomino

All I can say is I had a visceral reaction to the tape.. . . It made me think there really is a junior thug brigade for Obama . . .

The sun on the meadow is summery warm.
The stag in the forest runs free.
But gather together to greet the storm.
Tomorrow belongs to me.

The branch of the linden is leafy and green,
The Rhine gives its gold to the sea.
But somewhere a glory awaits unseen.
Tomorrow belongs to me.

The babe in his cradle is closing his eyes
The blossom embraces the bee.
But soon, says a whisper,
“Arise, arise.”
Tomorrow belongs to me.

Oh Fatherland, Fatherland,
Show us the sign
Your children have waited to see.
The morning will come
When the world is mine.
Tomorrow belongs to me!
on 18 Apr 2008 at 5:07 pm32votermom

Personally, I found the “twisting the knife” gesture really offensive.
It’s classic “b***h” stereotype.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 5:09 pm33Chris

So which is it Lambert? Stupid or lying? “Your typical crowd doesn’t react to a cheek scratch.” True that. Your typical crowd, or at least your typical crowd made up of people who lack X-Ray vision, don’t generally react to things they have no way of seeing. I’d be willing to bet that fewer than 50% of the people seated behind the senator have X-Ray vision, and yet they somehow managed to cheer. Were they cheering for something they couldn’t have seen, or was it maybe, just maybe, something he said? Lordy.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 5:39 pm34Bob

votermom: thank you for proving my point. I’ve used and seen used the “twisting the knife” motion in response to men, women, children, animals and inanimate objects but no, it could only mean one thing: “I’m gonna cut that bitch!” Yeah, this is all so objective and rational.
Tell me, did his use of the motion prove “in spades” that he’s sexist?
Jeebus deliver us, McCain is so going to win.
And of course after McCain beats Obama all you Clinton supporters who made that possible will be quick to point out that Clinton would have won.
And you’ll be right; because unlike Clinton supporters we Obama supporters haven’t so poisened the air that it will prove impossible for us to support her in the unlikely event she gets the nomination.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 6:10 pm35votermom

I’ve used and seen used the “twisting the knife” motion in response to men, women, children, animals and inanimate objects
To children? Seriously?
You must move in very aggressive, violent circles.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 6:22 pm36Bob

votermom: Thanks for the laughs. Yeah, that’s it - I’m a thug - the possibility I might have been referring to something like one kid, jokingly, to another never entered your mind. No, I hang with a pretty tough crowd - if Opie complains about his PBJ Sheriff Taylor threatens to gut him. LMAO over that. Thanks, you actually made my day.
Of course it’s worth noting you avoided the actual intent of my comment. Then again, I guess that’s the point, isn’t it; make a baseless charge and if the baseness of the charge is pointed out change the subject.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 6:27 pm37votermom

Seriously, one kid to another, that’s even more disturbing.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 6:37 pm38Bob

votermom: stop it, you’re killing me!!!!!!!!!!!!
on 18 Apr 2008 at 6:39 pm39Bob

votermom: And regarding the baselessness of your original charge……..
on 18 Apr 2008 at 10:01 pm40white_n_az

votermom…you have to learn to not take steveeboy and Bob too seriously as they have had the long drink of Kool-Aid…bless them…they can’t help it.
on 18 Apr 2008 at 11:45 pm41Bob

white_n_az: Once, just once I would appreciate it if you would reference one of my comments with something of substance. I may have had a laugh or two but I made a perfectly reasonable point: the
“twisting the knife” motion is NOT a put-down of women. Now you can agree or disagree with that, but I am asking you your opinion; is it a sign of sexism or was votermom grasping at straws?
I know dismissal is your default position, but Steve and I, for all our humor, do actually go to the trouble of making substantive points. Care to engage, just this once?
on 19 Apr 2008 at 12:24 am42white_n_az

sure Bob…
twisting the knife may not be sexist…the Annie Oakley ridicule surely was.

the twisting the knife was aggressive, violent, stupid but probably not sexist.

Brushing off his shoulder was theater for the crowd…it’s too bad that he doesn’t recognize the difference between the gestures but he comes from Wright’s church where the hip roll was great comedy for his worshippers. Some people never really do ever figure out when they’ve crossed the line.

Seriously though, I find your ridiculing votermom as rather insulting and dismissive and if you want respect, you have to actually show respect.

As for steveeboy…humor? when? where? how could I have missed it?

Sarcastic ridicule is not humor…it’s a pathetic form of elitism. Something Obama has in common with his more visible supporters, that seem to be more effective in turning Hillary supporters off…like who’s gonna need them anyway in November.

Keep it up Bob…I’m sure Barack would be proud
on 19 Apr 2008 at 9:23 am43Bob

“you have to learn to not take steveeboy and Bob too seriously as they have had the long drink of Kool-Aid…bless them…they can’t help it.”
“Sarcastic ridicule is not humor…it’s a pathetic form of elitism.”
on 19 Apr 2008 at 10:33 am44Sid

I hope Susie comes back and reads the threads of her and Clintons supporters in a year or so and makes a full fledged apology for acting like a Republican.

The stuff being posted here by her supporters is truly frightening when you are trying to displace Bush! Keep calling him unelectable, that’s really good for abortion rights and healthcare and ending the war. Keep comparing him to Bush, that will truly hurt McCain. I truly wonder how many of her supporters on the web are actual republicans doing the only thing that can keep a democrat from being the next president, tearing the party up from the inside.

I wish Susie would go read some Mitt Romney blog comments from months back to see that her and her friends are truly acting like Republicans, the difference being that Republicans still understand what it means to be a party, shame on all the democrats from both sides who make these republican attacks against each other.

I’ve got an idea Susie, try and tell us my Clinton is better, not why Obama sucks, I know its hard but it’s the right thing to do if you are a democrat and not intent on ensuring McCain in president.
on 19 Apr 2008 at 11:19 am45Palomino

@ Sid: “I truly wonder how many of her supporters on the web are actual republicans doing the only thing that can keep a democrat from being the next president, tearing the party up from the inside.”

Funny, that’s how many of us Clinton supporters see Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Patrick Leahy, Tom Daschle, and other members of the CDC (Clinton Derangement Caucus), those cynical backers of an Illinois state legislator who had exactly two years of experience (2005 and 2006) in the U.S. Senate when he announced his run for the presidency in early 2007.

And why are they behind him? Well, let’s ask John Kerry: “Because he’s African American. Because he’s a black man” (http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/03/because_hes_a_b.html).

You’re living in a glass house, Sid. Or maybe it’s a pitcher of Kool-Aid.
on 19 Apr 2008 at 11:51 am46cal1942

And this video was the short version. It didn’t show Obama’s smiling reaction to the crowd’s response to his gesture.

I hate to say this but even GW Bush wasn’t this crass on the campaign trail.

What a low-life.

And Sid. I have to say the party destroying is from the Obama crowd. Obama denigrated the Clinton presidency, has offered to put Social Security at risk, pandered to Republicans, personally assaulted fellow Democrats from the right (Clinton AND Edwards - remember the trial lawyer bit), offered Republican style solutions to domestic problems, honors the foreign policy of Reagan and GHW Bush, has repeated Drudge and Bob Novak talking points, encouraged the press to examine Bill Clinton’s recent sex life, deliberately race baited the Clintons, encouraged the press and made insinuations about fund raising for the Clinton library, used Republican tactics to attack Clinton’s health care plan, in GOP style called Hillary the most secretive politician in spite of the fact that she’s been investigated in the most intimate detail by right-wing Republican attack dogs for years, characterized Hillary’s years as first lady as though she were Laura Bush - odd since Republicans complained that she was too involved in public policy, used the Republican “she’ll do anything to be elected” attack schtick, the same crap used against Al Gore, set up elaborate drives to register Republicans as Democrats for a day in closed primaries in an attempt to warp the outcome. In short Obama has used right-wing Republican talking points and attack style continuously in his campaign from the very start. He has an economic policy team (I call them the Milton Friedman Memorial Economics Team) that would be completely at home working for GW Bush. If Hillary is the nominee Obama has given the GOP ample footage that they’ll use to attack during the GE campaign. His scurrilous race baitng will insure low African-American turnout if Hillary is nominated.

And you have the unmtigated gall to accuse Clinton supporters of harming the party. Obama, the favorite of Wall Street and the insurance industry has been on full assault mode from the start, denigrating the Democratic brand as much as possible.
on 19 Apr 2008 at 12:02 pm47white_n_az

Bob @ 41

I know dismissal is your default position, but Steve and I, for all our humor, do actually go to the trouble of making substantive points. Care to engage, just this once?

and when I do @42…
Bob @ 43

I’m sure it’s awfully hard for you to understand how dismissal is my default position for Steve and you because when invited to make a substantive point, you punt.

Stay classy
on 19 Apr 2008 at 2:32 pm48Bob

white_n_az: Allow me to explain. The substantive point you have been trying to make is that steveboy and I don’t count because all we do is use snark and dismiss other’s comments. First, I say that is utterly false. I’ve left probably 100 comments here, and I’d guess 95 of them were nothing but substantive arguments. The other 5 or so were some mix of points and snark. I know when I’m making a substantive point and when I’m using humor.
But here’s the key point: if I use some snark in responding to you, following your reply I don’t come back with some ridiculous claim that it is acceptable for me to dismiss you because you used snark in your reply. You do - as the two quotes I juxtaposed prove. It’s ok for you to be snarky but it’s elitist for me to be snarky.
If you want to throw mud understand mud will end up on you.
It’s a lesson I taught my kids before they made it to kindergarten.
Sorry if you feel you’re free to be sarcastic and dismissive but no one else is, but most grown-ups get that point.
Shall I end with “stay classy” or would you then accuse me of being an elitist, dismissive jackass?
PS: Thanks for keeping the Rev. Wright meme going. Sean Hannity would be proud.
on 19 Apr 2008 at 5:58 pm49white_n_az

Bob…

All I see from you and steveeboy is snarky, sarcastic comments which you think are funny. I called you on them. I don’t excuse my own sarcastic snarky comments. There are some people who cannot engage intellectually without reverting to these deeply cynical and dismissive tactics but if you want to engage in a reasonable debate, I can assure you that I will be there.

I honestly don’t believe that I have ever propogated any Rev. Wright meme ever. I am not invested in Rev. Wright or the things he has said.

I did mention the gesturing because of the theater aspect which it seems that Barack Obama has closely studied and emulated and has now become thoroughly practiced in the art of physical gestures play to the audience. It’s too bad that you are so hypersensitive that you need to see my comment to be more than it was. You impose a lot of barriers to communication.
on 19 Apr 2008 at 6:03 pm50white_n_az

oh and Bob…the ‘Sean Hannity would be proud’ is just the sort of cheap shot that is uncalled for, dismissive and seriously challenges the notion that you actually can discourse intellectually. Maybe you’ll learn.
on 20 Apr 2008 at 8:38 am51fumiste

Obama’s gesture has been caught on video on two different occasions in NC. Note the different people behind him. The bird goes up both times at mention of Clinton’s name.
SEE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoOFp-RDpvM
OR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhkq11UExcw

Deniability just flew out the window.
on 20 Apr 2008 at 2:26 pm52Bob

white_n_az @ 42: “but he comes from Wright’s church where the hip roll was great comedy for his worshippers.”
White_n_az @ 49: “I honestly don’t believe that I have ever propagated any Rev. Wright meme ever. I am not invested in Rev. Wright or the things he has said.”
white_n_az @ 50: “oh and Bob…the ‘Sean Hannity would be proud’ is just the sort of cheap shot that is uncalled for, dismissive and seriously challenges the notion that you actually can discourse intellectually. Maybe you’ll learn.”
Sean Hannity would be proud. He pounded the Wright controversy every night for 3 weeks. Finding out it’s still alive and well on liberal blogs would indeed make him happy.
on 20 Apr 2008 at 4:35 pm53Chris

Fumiste, same event from a different angle does not two events make. Fucking moron.

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Classy

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