Comments on: Bread and Butter Issues http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/ Keeping a jaundiced eye on the corporate media. Sat, 05 Jul 2008 22:06:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Nate http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-144749 Nate Sun, 01 Jun 2008 14:56:56 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-144749 why not just buy a few shares of stock and share in the profits, hmmmm why not just buy a few shares of stock and share in the profits, hmmmm

]]> By: jacilyn http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142646 jacilyn Tue, 06 May 2008 23:45:29 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142646 Oh but there there is indeed a tangible benefit of this "pandering". It is doing a marvelous job of exposing Obama's real attitude toward the working class. You might as well buy bumper stickers for every fancy hybrid car boasting "I can afford to get around no matter how much gas costs...and really, who else but me matters? OBAMA 08!" Leadership isn't telling people what to stop doing. It's giving them an alternative. Oh but there there is indeed a tangible benefit of this “pandering”. It is doing a marvelous job of exposing Obama’s real attitude toward the working class.

You might as well buy bumper stickers for every fancy hybrid car boasting “I can afford to get around no matter how much gas costs…and really, who else but me matters? OBAMA 08!”

Leadership isn’t telling people what to stop doing. It’s giving them an alternative.

]]> By: UK Socialist http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142641 UK Socialist Tue, 06 May 2008 22:12:37 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142641 I love Obies, I posted about regressive taxation and linked to Rothschild (of the Progressive magazine which I'm sure you've never heard of) and not a peep in response, just lots of bleating about who's an elitist, the evil old lady and incorrect babblings about 300,000 jobs lost from the Highway Fund. Another aspect being forgotten is the political game point that's going on here. McCain came out with this populist proposal and Clinton snatched it and improved it (that's by talking of a windfall tax on the oil companies as opposed to raising the Highway funds ObieKenobis) thus preventing the Republicans from appearing to be the only ones who care about working voters. Of course the mendacious munchers of the Village and MR High and Mighty himself may pour scorn on such 'pandering' but the voters who will decide the president in November do care. Therefore this is brilliant politics by the devil lady and yet another example of why Barry is a disastrous nominee for Democrats. I love Obies, I posted about regressive taxation and linked to Rothschild (of the Progressive magazine which I’m sure you’ve never heard of) and not a peep in response, just lots of bleating about who’s an elitist, the evil old lady and incorrect babblings about 300,000 jobs lost from the Highway Fund.

Another aspect being forgotten is the political game point that’s going on here. McCain came out with this populist proposal and Clinton snatched it and improved it (that’s by talking of a windfall tax on the oil companies as opposed to raising the Highway funds ObieKenobis) thus preventing the Republicans from appearing to be the only ones who care about working voters. Of course the mendacious munchers of the Village and MR High and Mighty himself may pour scorn on such ‘pandering’ but the voters who will decide the president in November do care. Therefore this is brilliant politics by the devil lady and yet another example of why Barry is a disastrous nominee for Democrats.

]]> By: Chris http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142634 Chris Tue, 06 May 2008 21:05:26 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142634 I'm not remarkably concerned to deny anything of the sort, Lambert. I would, however, be remarkably surprised if the bit of faux populism, of the sort usually promoted by wingnuts and internet glibertarians, which you are peddling at the moment, actually has any tangible benefits for much of anybody, much less people who need to live off of ramen noodles and spaghetti sauce from the local dollar store. Who knows. I'm often wrong. That said, I find myself in a state of bemused horror watching the spectacle of a person, whose internet persona seems to be a contrived concoction of equal parts elitism and condescension, rail against the elitist elements of the internet political world while savoring a hunk of Brie at the local Cosi. Well done sir. Bravo. I’m not remarkably concerned to deny anything of the sort, Lambert. I would, however, be remarkably surprised if the bit of faux populism, of the sort usually promoted by wingnuts and internet glibertarians, which you are peddling at the moment, actually has any tangible benefits for much of anybody, much less people who need to live off of ramen noodles and spaghetti sauce from the local dollar store. Who knows. I’m often wrong. That said, I find myself in a state of bemused horror watching the spectacle of a person, whose internet persona seems to be a contrived concoction of equal parts elitism and condescension, rail against the elitist elements of the internet political world while savoring a hunk of Brie at the local Cosi. Well done sir. Bravo.

]]> By: john http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142631 john Tue, 06 May 2008 20:32:56 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142631 cheese for $1.99 pound? that ain't real cheese that's for sure, that is good old ^%$#*&^ processed cheese! I would check those hot dogs too, they might be just that. cheese for $1.99 pound?
that ain’t real cheese that’s for sure, that is good old ^%$#*&^ processed cheese!
I would check those hot dogs too, they might be just that.

]]> By: Lambert Strether, Philadelphia, PA http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142628 Lambert Strether, Philadelphia, PA Tue, 06 May 2008 20:20:17 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142628 Elliott: just because $30 isn’t much to you doesn’t mean it isn’t a lot to me. Exactly. When you boil down the whole wankfest and all the hysteria, that's what all it amounts to. Elliott:

just because $30 isn’t much to you doesn’t mean it isn’t a lot to me.

Exactly. When you boil down the whole wankfest and all the hysteria, that’s what all it amounts to.

]]> By: Lambert Strether, Philadelphia, PA http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142624 Lambert Strether, Philadelphia, PA Tue, 06 May 2008 20:10:08 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142624 Chris burbles: Lambert, Last I checked... Yeah, that's when I had a job and I love good food. Situations change, as I'm sure you know. I'm not prescribing my post-dot-com menu of Dollar Store spaghetti sauce to everyone. Just saying that there are people for whom that's a reality --- Susie and myself, both, at times in our lives. All the Obama posters on this thread seem remarkably concerned to deny that. Chris burbles:

Lambert, Last I checked…

Yeah, that’s when I had a job and I love good food. Situations change, as I’m sure you know. I’m not prescribing my post-dot-com menu of Dollar Store spaghetti sauce to everyone. Just saying that there are people for whom that’s a reality — Susie and myself, both, at times in our lives. All the Obama posters on this thread seem remarkably concerned to deny that.

]]> By: Elliot Lake http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142620 Elliot Lake Tue, 06 May 2008 19:39:50 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142620 While the poorest of us (me included) may not see $30 in savings from the putative gast tax holiday (I don't drive that many miles)---the bread & butter issues post here was about the nastiness in the comment disparaging a savings of $30. I heard that on the news yesterday and thought, OW, that's rude, just because $30 isn't much to you doesn't mean it isn't a lot to me. While I don't know how useful the gas tax holiday itself would be to the country at large, I do know how much $30 is to me: two full bags of groceries including protein, or a good down payment on a visit to the doctor's office. And I think 'dismissive class' is better than 'creative class' for those folks. While the poorest of us (me included) may not see $30 in savings from the putative gast tax holiday (I don’t drive that many miles)—the bread & butter issues post here was about the nastiness in the comment disparaging a savings of $30.
I heard that on the news yesterday and thought, OW, that’s rude, just because $30 isn’t much to you doesn’t mean it isn’t a lot to me. While I don’t know how useful the gas tax holiday itself would be to the country at large, I do know how much $30 is to me: two full bags of groceries including protein, or a good down payment on a visit to the doctor’s office.

And I think ‘dismissive class’ is better than ‘creative class’ for those folks.

]]> By: serial catowner http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142615 serial catowner Tue, 06 May 2008 18:59:31 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142615 Well, I gotta say, that would be the most painful $30 I ever got, because to get it I'd have to spend hundreds on fuel, and it already hurts enough to spend hundreds on fuel and keep my daily food budget at about $2 per day. The last thing I need is to take my whopping $1 savings after a fill-up and put it in that special "$30 Fund" for the big day when I reach that mark. Now, if they put a windfall tax on oil company profits and gave everyone on food stamps $30 to spend, that would be a different matter. Well, I gotta say, that would be the most painful $30 I ever got, because to get it I’d have to spend hundreds on fuel, and it already hurts enough to spend hundreds on fuel and keep my daily food budget at about $2 per day. The last thing I need is to take my whopping $1 savings after a fill-up and put it in that special “$30 Fund” for the big day when I reach that mark.

Now, if they put a windfall tax on oil company profits and gave everyone on food stamps $30 to spend, that would be a different matter.

]]> By: coldH2Owi http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142613 coldH2Owi Tue, 06 May 2008 18:24:27 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142613 That would be "...as we called them while cutting pulp." Sorry. & I'm also sorry that I, too, took the bait from $30 will change lives crowd. What crap. That would be “…as we called them while cutting pulp.” Sorry.

& I’m also sorry that I, too, took the bait from $30 will change lives crowd. What crap.

]]> By: coldH2Owi http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142612 coldH2Owi Tue, 06 May 2008 18:18:05 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142612 Lambert: How decent of you. But, no, I'm not separting you two from the poor, what I'm saying to you is that it's absolutely stupid to think that $30 will make any difference to a person who has no place to spend it on non-corporate crap food (like nitrate filled hotdogs), who probably doesn't drive a care anyway. But that's OK with you, let them eat hot dogs &, oh, just forget it. I think Marx had a word for your style of thinking, let's see, oh, forget that, I sure don't want to seem like an elitist economic theorist who doesn't understand what it means to fill your belly with water to assuage the empties, as we called them in while cutting pulp. Lambert:
How decent of you. But, no, I’m not separting you two from the poor, what I’m saying to you is that it’s absolutely stupid to think that $30 will make any difference to a person who has no place to spend it on non-corporate crap food (like nitrate filled hotdogs), who probably doesn’t drive a care anyway. But that’s OK with you, let them eat hot dogs &, oh, just forget it. I think Marx had a word for your style of thinking, let’s see, oh, forget that, I sure don’t want to seem like an elitist economic theorist who doesn’t understand what it means to fill your belly with water to assuage the empties, as we called them in while cutting pulp.

]]> By: Chris http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142610 Chris Tue, 06 May 2008 18:04:48 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142610 Lambert, Last I checked, <a href = "http://www.correntewire.com/i_love_philly_philly_rules_p_h_i_l_l_y" rel="nofollow">your menu</a> consisted of sipping wine and and munching on Brie at the overpriced yuppie trap known formerly known as <a href = "http://www.getcosi.com/folders.asp?action=display&record=3" rel="nofollow">Xando</a>. There's a word for what your pushing here, but I can't think of it off the top of my head. Lambert, Last I checked, your menu consisted of sipping wine and and munching on Brie at the overpriced yuppie trap known formerly known as Xando. There’s a word for what your pushing here, but I can’t think of it off the top of my head.

]]> By: lambert strether http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142606 lambert strether Tue, 06 May 2008 17:28:08 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142606 coldH2Owl: Er, no. Elitism isn't about how much money you have. It's about your attitude toward those who have less money than you. For example, when you write: <blockquote> Lambert & Susie ought to quit wasting their time providing menus for the poor ... </blockquote> you're putting "lambert & susie" on one side and "the poor" on the other. What that construction ignores is that we are not devising menus for "the poor," people other than us at all. These are our <i>own</i> menus. I can't imagine why you can't see that, or why you don't write as if yo did. There's a word for that... Wait, it'll come to me... coldH2Owl:

Er, no. Elitism isn’t about how much money you have. It’s about your attitude toward those who have less money than you.

For example, when you write:

Lambert & Susie ought to quit wasting their time providing menus for the poor …

you’re putting “lambert & susie” on one side and “the poor” on the other. What that construction ignores is that we are not devising menus for “the poor,” people other than us at all. These are our own menus.

I can’t imagine why you can’t see that, or why you don’t write as if yo did.

There’s a word for that… Wait, it’ll come to me…

]]> By: coldH2Owi http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142595 coldH2Owi Tue, 06 May 2008 15:57:20 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142595 I find this completely mind-boggling - who's poorer than whom? What crap. I guess frying garbanzo beans in lard & then adding a can of peaches qualifies me. Or maybe not. Whether or not you support Sen. Clinton, this whole episode is stupid. & what's worse, anyone who thinks, as well as works, is now some sort of elitist. How does $109,000,000 in eight years sound to you, Lambert/Susie? Sounds pretty damn elitist to me. I'm really disappointed in the "left" blogosphere who have taken on this poorer-than-thou mantle. For Christ's sake people, this is not how you win. Oh, & in terms of the $30 - how many urban poor actually have a car to drive? Where are they going to get their $30 lifeline of food? How many have been helped to file a tax return, even if they don't have to pay taxes, to get their rebate? Maybe Lambert & Susie ought to quit wasting their time providing menus for the poor & go out & actually help them file a return. $300 might actually help pay the rent for a month. I find this completely mind-boggling - who’s poorer than whom? What crap. I guess frying garbanzo beans in lard & then adding a can of peaches qualifies me. Or maybe not. Whether or not you support Sen. Clinton, this whole episode is stupid. & what’s worse, anyone who thinks, as well as works, is now some sort of elitist. How does $109,000,000 in eight years sound to you, Lambert/Susie? Sounds pretty damn elitist to me. I’m really disappointed in the “left” blogosphere who have taken on this poorer-than-thou mantle. For Christ’s sake people, this is not how you win.
Oh, & in terms of the $30 - how many urban poor actually have a car to drive? Where are they going to get their $30 lifeline of food? How many have been helped to file a tax return, even if they don’t have to pay taxes, to get their rebate? Maybe Lambert & Susie ought to quit wasting their time providing menus for the poor & go out & actually help them file a return. $300 might actually help pay the rent for a month.

]]> By: JR http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142589 JR Tue, 06 May 2008 15:42:16 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142589 OK. Back of the envelope math. I've got a 12 year-old, crap car that gets about 20 mpg. So, at 18 cents a gallon, I would have to drive... 3,333 miles to see that $30 of "savings." I'm already down to absolutely essential trips, which is about 20 miles a day for me. So. In 33 weeks, I could receive that $30 windfall. Or just over 90 cents a week in savings. Whoo! That's a reason to vote! You convinced me!! OK. Back of the envelope math. I’ve got a 12 year-old, crap car that gets about 20 mpg. So, at 18 cents a gallon, I would have to drive… 3,333 miles to see that $30 of “savings.”
I’m already down to absolutely essential trips, which is about 20 miles a day for me. So. In 33 weeks, I could receive that $30 windfall.
Or just over 90 cents a week in savings.
Whoo! That’s a reason to vote! You convinced me!!

]]> By: brendancalling http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142587 brendancalling Tue, 06 May 2008 15:28:48 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142587 I've been poor (I still AM poor) and I think the "gas tax" holiday is about the most retarded thing I have ever heard that hasn't come out of a retarded person's mouth. Neil: <i>So what I’m saying is, it hurts a lot more when you say my opinion is worthless because I’ve never been poor and I live in lofty luxury than if you were to say it’s just because I’m hopelessly stupid.</i> Wait til she calls you an elitist or naive. I only come by here now to see the trainwreck. I’ve been poor (I still AM poor) and I think the “gas tax” holiday is about the most retarded thing I have ever heard that hasn’t come out of a retarded person’s mouth.

Neil: So what I’m saying is, it hurts a lot more when you say my opinion is worthless because I’ve never been poor and I live in lofty luxury than if you were to say it’s just because I’m hopelessly stupid.

Wait til she calls you an elitist or naive. I only come by here now to see the trainwreck.

]]> By: Tom http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142586 Tom Tue, 06 May 2008 15:00:55 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142586 Are you really telling me that a person who needs $30 to eat for a month will get that $30 by saving on what they spend on gas? Ignoring the fact that the price of gas will go right back up to where it was and the oil companies will just rake in more profits. Ignore the fact that you can save more than $30 by changing your driving habits. Ignore the fact that neither Clinton nor McCain have actually submitted a bill to Congress. Ignore the fact that the money that would have gone to roads and infrastructure will go to the oil company executives. Ignore the fact that 300,000 American jobs will be lost because of that lost money. But why stop at $30? What about all the money you could get if we stopped paying for police and fire and schools? What if we stopped all taxes? Think of all the Ramen noodles you could buy! Ignoring all that... here is my real question. Is there a limit on how stupid the American public is or was P.T. Barnum right? Are you really telling me that a person who needs $30 to eat for a month will get that $30 by saving on what they spend on gas? Ignoring the fact that the price of gas will go right back up to where it was and the oil companies will just rake in more profits. Ignore the fact that you can save more than $30 by changing your driving habits. Ignore the fact that neither Clinton nor McCain have actually submitted a bill to Congress. Ignore the fact that the money that would have gone to roads and infrastructure will go to the oil company executives. Ignore the fact that 300,000 American jobs will be lost because of that lost money. But why stop at $30? What about all the money you could get if we stopped paying for police and fire and schools? What if we stopped all taxes? Think of all the Ramen noodles you could buy!

Ignoring all that… here is my real question. Is there a limit on how stupid the American public is or was P.T. Barnum right?

]]> By: zuzu http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142575 zuzu Tue, 06 May 2008 13:32:44 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142575 Wow, this thread devolved pretty quickly from a discussion of how much of a difference $30 could make to a person on the edge to bashing Hillary for completely unrelated ideas. It continues to astonish me that so much energy is expended in trying to tear Hillary down (while accusing her of going negative) rather than discussing issues. I'd like to know what kind of relief plan Obama is proposing as an alternative to a gas-tax holiday. I'd love to know what he proposes to do to deal with the rise in food prices caused not just by speculators but by rising transport costs. Unfortunately, neither he nor his supporters want to tell me. They just want to talk about how bad Clinton's plan is, or talk about Bill's presidential library donors. Wow, this thread devolved pretty quickly from a discussion of how much of a difference $30 could make to a person on the edge to bashing Hillary for completely unrelated ideas.

It continues to astonish me that so much energy is expended in trying to tear Hillary down (while accusing her of going negative) rather than discussing issues.

I’d like to know what kind of relief plan Obama is proposing as an alternative to a gas-tax holiday. I’d love to know what he proposes to do to deal with the rise in food prices caused not just by speculators but by rising transport costs. Unfortunately, neither he nor his supporters want to tell me. They just want to talk about how bad Clinton’s plan is, or talk about Bill’s presidential library donors.

]]> By: Chris http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142572 Chris Tue, 06 May 2008 13:23:50 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142572 We're knee deep in the awesome. <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/K4-vEwD_7Hk&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/K4-vEwD_7Hk&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object> We’re knee deep in the awesome.

]]> By: Wendy Whinner http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142564 Wendy Whinner Tue, 06 May 2008 12:50:16 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142564 Neil said: "They were just rich, overpaid non-profit organization employees living off the fat of the HUD budget." Neil congratulations - you are learning to use your own eyes and brain to see what is really going on with our tax money. That means you will one day cross over to the dark side and vote Republican. Trust me- you will be happier! Neil said:

“They were just rich, overpaid non-profit organization employees living off the fat of the HUD budget.”

Neil congratulations - you are learning to use your own eyes and brain to see what is really going on with our tax money. That means you will one day cross over to the dark side and vote Republican. Trust me- you will be happier!

]]> By: steveeboy http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142561 steveeboy Tue, 06 May 2008 11:53:33 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142561 "The symbolism is real…either you are willing to break the mold/conventions to help out people who are getting squeezed or you aren’t." yeah, and a DLC candidate is just the one to break that mold and make some --EMPTY--symbolic gestures!!! The oil companies will NEVER just raise their prices to cover the cost of their lost revenues, they would never dare think of such a thing! Oh, excuse me, my latte is ready, gotta go get in the audi and waste some gas. “The symbolism is real…either you are willing to break the mold/conventions to help out people who are getting squeezed or you aren’t.”

yeah, and a DLC candidate is just the one to break that mold and make some –EMPTY–symbolic gestures!!!

The oil companies will NEVER just raise their prices to cover the cost of their lost revenues, they would never dare think of such a thing!

Oh, excuse me, my latte is ready, gotta go get in the audi and waste some gas.

]]> By: EV http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142551 EV Tue, 06 May 2008 06:54:14 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142551 But, but...it doesn't completely solve everyone's problems forever! So we might as well not do it. Everybody knows this is a bandaid. But some people are bleeding badly right now, and every little bit helps. But, but…it doesn’t completely solve everyone’s problems forever! So we might as well not do it.

Everybody knows this is a bandaid. But some people are bleeding badly right now, and every little bit helps.

]]> By: cal1942 http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142549 cal1942 Tue, 06 May 2008 05:27:08 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142549 Several people have commented that there would be a loss of jobs and neglect of infrastructure. They're describing the McCain plan NOT the Clinton plan. The Clinton plan is revenue neutral; no loss of jobs, no neglected infrastructure. By the gallon taxes are regressive. I would like to see the elimination of as many regressive taxes as possible. Real review of tax policy with a view to greater progressivity would be a step in the right direction. Several people have commented that there would be a loss of jobs and neglect of infrastructure.

They’re describing the McCain plan NOT the Clinton plan.

The Clinton plan is revenue neutral; no loss of jobs, no neglected infrastructure.

By the gallon taxes are regressive. I would like to see the elimination of as many regressive taxes as possible. Real review of tax policy with a view to greater progressivity would be a step in the right direction.

]]> By: neil http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142546 neil Tue, 06 May 2008 04:29:06 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142546 Oh my gosh, and as long as I'm baring my suffering-American credibility to you guys, I might as well mention that I owe $12 grand to an American hospital that I'll never be able to pay! Just for taking my <i>baby</i> to the emergency room! (We're all American citizens, in case any Minutemen are reading) I'm not making this up, that's just how down I am. So what I'm saying is, it hurts a lot more when you say my opinion is worthless because I've never been poor and I live in lofty luxury than if you were to say it's just because I'm hopelessly stupid. That got my commenting leg to twitching, I guess. Never mind, I'll stop now. Oh my gosh, and as long as I’m baring my suffering-American credibility to you guys, I might as well mention that I owe $12 grand to an American hospital that I’ll never be able to pay! Just for taking my baby to the emergency room! (We’re all American citizens, in case any Minutemen are reading) I’m not making this up, that’s just how down I am.

So what I’m saying is, it hurts a lot more when you say my opinion is worthless because I’ve never been poor and I live in lofty luxury than if you were to say it’s just because I’m hopelessly stupid. That got my commenting leg to twitching, I guess. Never mind, I’ll stop now.

]]> By: Ron http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142545 Ron Tue, 06 May 2008 04:27:17 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142545 Susie, great post and on point. I still think it's a shit idea. Susie, great post and on point.
I still think it’s a shit idea.

]]> By: neil http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142544 neil Tue, 06 May 2008 04:09:45 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142544 <blockquote>Neil...supporting a family on $25,000 a year...I don't know how you do it and have time to cruise around online.</blockquote> Thank you! It's actually more like $23,000, though I hasten to add that I am certainly privileged compared to people who live in the U.S. and support their families on $23,000 a year. But I don't think that my meager income is nearly sufficient to render my opinion invalid.

Neil…supporting a family on $25,000 a year…I don’t know how you do it and have time to cruise around online.

Thank you! It’s actually more like $23,000, though I hasten to add that I am certainly privileged compared to people who live in the U.S. and support their families on $23,000 a year. But I don’t think that my meager income is nearly sufficient to render my opinion invalid.

]]> By: neil http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142543 neil Tue, 06 May 2008 04:05:03 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142543 Congratulations, momof2. Now you know how half the country thinks of all Democrats. I hope you enjoy it! Congratulations, momof2. Now you know how half the country thinks of all Democrats. I hope you enjoy it!

]]> By: white_n_az http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142542 white_n_az Tue, 06 May 2008 04:05:01 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142542 lambert@17 <blockquote>(All the nonsense about collapsing bridges — nice work on the hope and optimism front, guys — is just so much OFB lekkage. </blockquote> DUDE - you rock Neil...supporting a family on $25,000 a year...I don't know how you do it and have time to cruise around online. It's not just the rising price of gas as others have pointed out but food costs have gone through the roof. I don't recall the last time I saw a loaf of bread for 99 cents but I'll take your word for it. The symbolism is real...either you are willing to break the mold/conventions to help out people who are getting squeezed or you aren't. Even worse is that the job market is shrinking, there's little chance in most industries to get a raise in pay that will do anything to approximately cover the increases in the cost of living, the cost of health care is rising at 15%-20% annually. Yeah, what we are talking about is small money and I can see where the 'Poverty Sucks' crowd isn't going to get worked up over something that returns $25-$75 per family this summer but it's a about time someone starting tossing bones around. lambert@17

(All the nonsense about collapsing bridges — nice work on the hope and optimism front, guys — is just so much OFB lekkage.

DUDE - you rock

Neil…supporting a family on $25,000 a year…I don’t know how you do it and have time to cruise around online.

It’s not just the rising price of gas as others have pointed out but food costs have gone through the roof. I don’t recall the last time I saw a loaf of bread for 99 cents but I’ll take your word for it.

The symbolism is real…either you are willing to break the mold/conventions to help out people who are getting squeezed or you aren’t. Even worse is that the job market is shrinking, there’s little chance in most industries to get a raise in pay that will do anything to approximately cover the increases in the cost of living, the cost of health care is rising at 15%-20% annually.

Yeah, what we are talking about is small money and I can see where the ‘Poverty Sucks’ crowd isn’t going to get worked up over something that returns $25-$75 per family this summer but it’s a about time someone starting tossing bones around.

]]> By: momof2 http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142541 momof2 Tue, 06 May 2008 04:01:03 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142541 I have come to think of Obama supporters as elitists who are more concerned with their own pretty words than with working people in this country. Working people are so... uncool. And they don't dress nicely and they have, like, wrinkles and stuff. I have come to think of Obama supporters as elitists who are more concerned with their own pretty words than with working people in this country. Working people are so… uncool. And they don’t dress nicely and they have, like, wrinkles and stuff.

]]> By: lambert strether http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/bread-and-butter-issues/#comment-142540 lambert strether Tue, 06 May 2008 03:56:35 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24742#comment-142540 Hey, speaking of discretionary lattes, oh, I'm sorry, discretionary driving, what useless consumer good will you waste your $30 on? I'm thinking of having some cosmetic surgery done. Hey, speaking of discretionary lattes, oh, I’m sorry, discretionary driving, what useless consumer good will you waste your $30 on? I’m thinking of having some cosmetic surgery done.

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