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	<title>Comments on: Power Grab</title>
	<atom:link href="http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/</link>
	<description>Keeping a jaundiced eye on the corporate media.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 14:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6</generator>
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		<title>By: TheRealAmerica</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/#comment-144753</link>
		<dc:creator>TheRealAmerica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 17:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24841#comment-144753</guid>
		<description>What is wrong with all of you liberal-minded folk?  Do you hate freedom?  Do you really think the Democrat party stands for freedom?  Socialism and Freedom are mutually exclusive - Get it?  What part of FREEdom don't you get?  Do you think socialized medicine will make you more free?  Forcing the wealthy to pay more of a percentage of the taxes in this country because they are more productive (sort of a penalty, wouldn't you say) makes us more free?  Free from what - responsibility?

I'm no huge fan of the Republicans either, but only because they have become too liberal.  Liberalism/Socialism DOES NOT WORK - NEVER HAS NEVER WILL.  Why do you all think if we keep trying this NON-FREE approach to finding Nirvana we'll eventually get there?  

I feel for people in need, and I feel as a nation we should try to help out wherever possible, but allowing the government to be the ones to administer what everyone should give (through taxation) is immoral and just flat wrong.  And then for you to complain and lament about power corrupting absolutely - blah blah blah - is just so hypocritical.  Why would you want to give them (the establishment whether conservative OR liberal) MORE power?!!!  This makes absolutely zero sense.  Blame it on the GOP if you will, but it is not their fault alone for whatever mess you think we're in as a country.  Why don't you put your blind faith in a foreigner, no less a billionaire, who hates this country like George Soros?  Oh right, you already do!  How stupid is this?!!!  This makes no sense at all.  Exactly what drug and in what quantity must one consume it to reach this level of enlightenment?!!!  There is no doubt this country is headed for a majorly rude awakening!  Wake up before it is too late!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is wrong with all of you liberal-minded folk?  Do you hate freedom?  Do you really think the Democrat party stands for freedom?  Socialism and Freedom are mutually exclusive - Get it?  What part of FREEdom don&#8217;t you get?  Do you think socialized medicine will make you more free?  Forcing the wealthy to pay more of a percentage of the taxes in this country because they are more productive (sort of a penalty, wouldn&#8217;t you say) makes us more free?  Free from what - responsibility?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m no huge fan of the Republicans either, but only because they have become too liberal.  Liberalism/Socialism DOES NOT WORK - NEVER HAS NEVER WILL.  Why do you all think if we keep trying this NON-FREE approach to finding Nirvana we&#8217;ll eventually get there?  </p>
<p>I feel for people in need, and I feel as a nation we should try to help out wherever possible, but allowing the government to be the ones to administer what everyone should give (through taxation) is immoral and just flat wrong.  And then for you to complain and lament about power corrupting absolutely - blah blah blah - is just so hypocritical.  Why would you want to give them (the establishment whether conservative OR liberal) MORE power?!!!  This makes absolutely zero sense.  Blame it on the GOP if you will, but it is not their fault alone for whatever mess you think we&#8217;re in as a country.  Why don&#8217;t you put your blind faith in a foreigner, no less a billionaire, who hates this country like George Soros?  Oh right, you already do!  How stupid is this?!!!  This makes no sense at all.  Exactly what drug and in what quantity must one consume it to reach this level of enlightenment?!!!  There is no doubt this country is headed for a majorly rude awakening!  Wake up before it is too late!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/#comment-143397</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 15:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24841#comment-143397</guid>
		<description>lambert strether: "A charismatic and content-free figure, some of whose followers invest him with quasi-religious appeal, consolidating separate centers of power into his “movement,” which is outside the control of the traditional Democratic Party — What could go wrong?"
Sure glad you Clinton supporters are so reality based. The paranoia, intellectual dishonesty, and narcissism evident in that comment could keep a dozen shrinks fully employed for a decade.
Your candidate lost. Get over it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lambert strether: &#8220;A charismatic and content-free figure, some of whose followers invest him with quasi-religious appeal, consolidating separate centers of power into his “movement,” which is outside the control of the traditional Democratic Party — What could go wrong?&#8221;<br />
Sure glad you Clinton supporters are so reality based. The paranoia, intellectual dishonesty, and narcissism evident in that comment could keep a dozen shrinks fully employed for a decade.<br />
Your candidate lost. Get over it.</p>
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		<title>By: brendancalling</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/#comment-143389</link>
		<dc:creator>brendancalling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 15:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24841#comment-143389</guid>
		<description>Sorry lambert, that dog won't hunt.
You know as well as I do that the primary rules were agreed to long before the primary started. michigan and florida broke the rules they'd agreed to.  I'm sorry that hasn't worked out so well for your preferred candidate. 

As for firing Howard Dean, dude when Clinton surrounds herself with the likes of McAuliffe, Begala, and Carville, you think they're going to have Howard Dean stick around after Clinton deliberately slapped the DNC in the face with all this Michigan/Florida bullshit?

Please: even you're not that stupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry lambert, that dog won&#8217;t hunt.<br />
You know as well as I do that the primary rules were agreed to long before the primary started. michigan and florida broke the rules they&#8217;d agreed to.  I&#8217;m sorry that hasn&#8217;t worked out so well for your preferred candidate. </p>
<p>As for firing Howard Dean, dude when Clinton surrounds herself with the likes of McAuliffe, Begala, and Carville, you think they&#8217;re going to have Howard Dean stick around after Clinton deliberately slapped the DNC in the face with all this Michigan/Florida bullshit?</p>
<p>Please: even you&#8217;re not that stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: Izquierdo</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/#comment-143387</link>
		<dc:creator>Izquierdo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 15:00:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24841#comment-143387</guid>
		<description>I swear, you folks know next to nothing about evolved coffee drinks.
In the warm months (it's going to reach 99 today in San Jose) the beverage of choice is a venti white-chocolate skinny decaf frappuccino with a half-portion of whipped cream, medium-rare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I swear, you folks know next to nothing about evolved coffee drinks.<br />
In the warm months (it&#8217;s going to reach 99 today in San Jose) the beverage of choice is a venti white-chocolate skinny decaf frappuccino with a half-portion of whipped cream, medium-rare.</p>
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		<title>By: lambert strether</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/#comment-143383</link>
		<dc:creator>lambert strether</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 13:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24841#comment-143383</guid>
		<description>Er, that's the 48-state, caucus-based, Donna Brazile-gamed strategy. 

And got a link on that? I hear "she'll get rid of" constantly, but I've never seen any evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Er, that&#8217;s the 48-state, caucus-based, Donna Brazile-gamed strategy. </p>
<p>And got a link on that? I hear &#8220;she&#8217;ll get rid of&#8221; constantly, but I&#8217;ve never seen any evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: brendancalling</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/#comment-143381</link>
		<dc:creator>brendancalling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 12:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24841#comment-143381</guid>
		<description>Steveeboy is correct: one of the reasons I opposed clinton to begin with is that she'll get rid of Howard Dean and the 50-state strategy, which none of the DLC types she's surrounded with have ever supported.

Someone oughta ask Begala what he thinks of "that asshole from Vermont" now...

Anyway, time for some arugula, followed by a triple soy latte no foam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steveeboy is correct: one of the reasons I opposed clinton to begin with is that she&#8217;ll get rid of Howard Dean and the 50-state strategy, which none of the DLC types she&#8217;s surrounded with have ever supported.</p>
<p>Someone oughta ask Begala what he thinks of &#8220;that asshole from Vermont&#8221; now&#8230;</p>
<p>Anyway, time for some arugula, followed by a triple soy latte no foam.</p>
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		<title>By: lambert strether</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/#comment-143369</link>
		<dc:creator>lambert strether</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 05:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24841#comment-143369</guid>
		<description>A charismatic and content-free figure, some of whose followers invest him with quasi-religious appeal, consolidating separate centers of power into his "movement," which is outside the control of the traditional Democratic Party -- What could go wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A charismatic and content-free figure, some of whose followers invest him with quasi-religious appeal, consolidating separate centers of power into his &#8220;movement,&#8221; which is outside the control of the traditional Democratic Party &#8212; What could go wrong?</p>
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		<title>By: Stephanie</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/#comment-143366</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 04:29:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24841#comment-143366</guid>
		<description>so Obama doesnt want people to give money to anyone but his self? 
what about the ACLU?
what about greenpeace, aspca, nrdc, all liberal groups?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so Obama doesnt want people to give money to anyone but his self?<br />
what about the ACLU?<br />
what about greenpeace, aspca, nrdc, all liberal groups?</p>
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		<title>By: steveeboy</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/#comment-143359</link>
		<dc:creator>steveeboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 02:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24841#comment-143359</guid>
		<description>actually susie,

last week you said obama was advising people not to give to other CANDIDATES, you were asked for proof, which you never really provided--other than a link to another blog post which said "my sources."

I am sure that you are well aware that every nominee takes over the DNC and then runs the campaign as they see fit.

I am also sure that on some level you know that clinton et al have never been down with the 50 state strategy and the Dean-led DNC.

Or, not.

maybe you are still in denial.

One would think that Edwards' endorsement would open your eyes, 

but maybe not.

in any case, I must go have another latte.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>actually susie,</p>
<p>last week you said obama was advising people not to give to other CANDIDATES, you were asked for proof, which you never really provided&#8211;other than a link to another blog post which said &#8220;my sources.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am sure that you are well aware that every nominee takes over the DNC and then runs the campaign as they see fit.</p>
<p>I am also sure that on some level you know that clinton et al have never been down with the 50 state strategy and the Dean-led DNC.</p>
<p>Or, not.</p>
<p>maybe you are still in denial.</p>
<p>One would think that Edwards&#8217; endorsement would open your eyes, </p>
<p>but maybe not.</p>
<p>in any case, I must go have another latte.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/#comment-143348</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 23:40:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24841#comment-143348</guid>
		<description>Too many people named Chris around here.  My god Susie, we agree on something for the first time in months.  Perhaps we should get together for a celebratory fondue or something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too many people named Chris around here.  My god Susie, we agree on something for the first time in months.  Perhaps we should get together for a celebratory fondue or something.</p>
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		<title>By: Susie</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/#comment-143347</link>
		<dc:creator>Susie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 23:29:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24841#comment-143347</guid>
		<description>Chris, you mean people like &lt;a href="http://www.votevets.org/" rel="nofollow"&gt;VoteVets.org&lt;/a&gt;? Because that's one of the groups they're telling donors to stay away from.

I not only think it's preferable but necessary to have an ideological infrastructure that's independent of the party structure. You think we should starve groups like Media Matters because the founder is friendly with Clinton? I don't agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, you mean people like <a href="http://www.votevets.org/" rel="nofollow">VoteVets.org</a>? Because that&#8217;s one of the groups they&#8217;re telling donors to stay away from.</p>
<p>I not only think it&#8217;s preferable but necessary to have an ideological infrastructure that&#8217;s independent of the party structure. You think we should starve groups like Media Matters because the founder is friendly with Clinton? I don&#8217;t agree.</p>
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		<title>By: Izquierdo</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/#comment-143344</link>
		<dc:creator>Izquierdo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 22:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24841#comment-143344</guid>
		<description>None of my money will go to his campaign org., or Hillary's, or to any of the DNC entities.
It will go exclusively to the uncorrupted smaller independent groups.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>None of my money will go to his campaign org., or Hillary&#8217;s, or to any of the DNC entities.<br />
It will go exclusively to the uncorrupted smaller independent groups.</p>
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		<title>By: Andre</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/#comment-143343</link>
		<dc:creator>Andre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 22:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24841#comment-143343</guid>
		<description>Considering how well his big bucks helped him in PA, IN, and WV, should we be concerned?  I've taken to calling him a pig's ear trying to turn into a silk purse, but all the money in the  world doesn't seem to be doing it.  As for the impersonation of W, if a dispassionate look is taken, there are many similarities, my favorite being his penchant for acting like a schoolyard bully, just like W.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Considering how well his big bucks helped him in PA, IN, and WV, should we be concerned?  I&#8217;ve taken to calling him a pig&#8217;s ear trying to turn into a silk purse, but all the money in the  world doesn&#8217;t seem to be doing it.  As for the impersonation of W, if a dispassionate look is taken, there are many similarities, my favorite being his penchant for acting like a schoolyard bully, just like W.</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/#comment-143342</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 22:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24841#comment-143342</guid>
		<description>The question is, who'd he grab it from?  Us in the netroots?  Progressive 527s?  Ha ha ha ha!  Good one.

No, from the traditional fat cats in the party, You know, all those folks who pretty much lined up behind Hillary before one vote was ever cast.

I think the &lt;a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200806/obama-finance" rel="nofollow"&gt;Joshua Green article&lt;/a&gt; in the Atlantic talks about this stuff pretty well:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The story of Obama’s success is very much a story about money. It provided his initial credibility. It paid for his impressive campaign operation. It allowed him first to compete with, and then to overwhelm, the most powerful Democratic family in a generation—one that understood the power of money in politics and commanded a network of wealthy donors that has financed the Democratic Party for years.
...
The social-networking model provided Obama with something that insurgents before him, from Gary Hart to McCain, always lacked: a means of capturing excitement and translating it into money. In the 2004 primary, Howard Dean raised $27 million online. Obama is fast approaching $200 million.
...
“What’s amazing,” says Peter Leyden of the New Politics Institute, “is that Hillary built the best campaign that has ever been done in Democratic politics on the old model—she raised more money than anyone before her, she locked down all the party stalwarts, she assembled an all-star team of consultants, and she really mastered this top-down, command-and-control type of outfit. And yet, she’s getting beaten by this political start-up that is essentially a totally different model of the new politics.” &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I for one don't lament the old Clinton model one bit. As for this new one, sure it may become corrupt too.  But unlike the old model, this one is requires the consent of a lot more people to sustain.  Which makes it ironically much more susceptible to those same people defunding it if that corruption becomes a significant problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question is, who&#8217;d he grab it from?  Us in the netroots?  Progressive 527s?  Ha ha ha ha!  Good one.</p>
<p>No, from the traditional fat cats in the party, You know, all those folks who pretty much lined up behind Hillary before one vote was ever cast.</p>
<p>I think the <a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200806/obama-finance" rel="nofollow">Joshua Green article</a> in the Atlantic talks about this stuff pretty well:</p>
<blockquote><p>The story of Obama’s success is very much a story about money. It provided his initial credibility. It paid for his impressive campaign operation. It allowed him first to compete with, and then to overwhelm, the most powerful Democratic family in a generation—one that understood the power of money in politics and commanded a network of wealthy donors that has financed the Democratic Party for years.<br />
&#8230;<br />
The social-networking model provided Obama with something that insurgents before him, from Gary Hart to McCain, always lacked: a means of capturing excitement and translating it into money. In the 2004 primary, Howard Dean raised $27 million online. Obama is fast approaching $200 million.<br />
&#8230;<br />
“What’s amazing,” says Peter Leyden of the New Politics Institute, “is that Hillary built the best campaign that has ever been done in Democratic politics on the old model—she raised more money than anyone before her, she locked down all the party stalwarts, she assembled an all-star team of consultants, and she really mastered this top-down, command-and-control type of outfit. And yet, she’s getting beaten by this political start-up that is essentially a totally different model of the new politics.” </p></blockquote>
<p>I for one don&#8217;t lament the old Clinton model one bit. As for this new one, sure it may become corrupt too.  But unlike the old model, this one is requires the consent of a lot more people to sustain.  Which makes it ironically much more susceptible to those same people defunding it if that corruption becomes a significant problem.</p>
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		<title>By: David Parsons</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/#comment-143341</link>
		<dc:creator>David Parsons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 22:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24841#comment-143341</guid>
		<description>After 8 years of the GOP doing a stunt like this with lobbyists, do you *really* think that it's a grand idea that one of the remaining Democratic candidates might be trying to redo the K street project, but on a more intimate scale?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After 8 years of the GOP doing a stunt like this with lobbyists, do you *really* think that it&#8217;s a grand idea that one of the remaining Democratic candidates might be trying to redo the K street project, but on a more intimate scale?</p>
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		<title>By: arbitrista</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/#comment-143338</link>
		<dc:creator>arbitrista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 21:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24841#comment-143338</guid>
		<description>I'd disagree. As Robert Caro wrote, power doesn't necessarily corrupt - it reveals. And I'm not so surprised Obama is dissuading donations to those particular groups, since all of the ones mentioned in the article were supportive of the Clintons. 

I will admit, however, that it is somewhat worrisome how independent Obama is of any established institutions. If he wins, he'll be the most autonomous President since John Kennedy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d disagree. As Robert Caro wrote, power doesn&#8217;t necessarily corrupt - it reveals. And I&#8217;m not so surprised Obama is dissuading donations to those particular groups, since all of the ones mentioned in the article were supportive of the Clintons. </p>
<p>I will admit, however, that it is somewhat worrisome how independent Obama is of any established institutions. If he wins, he&#8217;ll be the most autonomous President since John Kennedy.</p>
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		<title>By: Motherlode</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/#comment-143336</link>
		<dc:creator>Motherlode</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 20:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24841#comment-143336</guid>
		<description>Don't hold your breath, Gug, waiting for the "good." Absolute power corrupts ... absolutely. One of the more disturbing aspects of Obama's "new politics" is his history of consolidating power by not simply defeating, but by eradicating the opposition, including within his own party. It's a trait eerily reminiscent of The Boy King. Have we finally reached the end of his administration, only to replace him with a similar personality from our own party?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t hold your breath, Gug, waiting for the &#8220;good.&#8221; Absolute power corrupts &#8230; absolutely. One of the more disturbing aspects of Obama&#8217;s &#8220;new politics&#8221; is his history of consolidating power by not simply defeating, but by eradicating the opposition, including within his own party. It&#8217;s a trait eerily reminiscent of The Boy King. Have we finally reached the end of his administration, only to replace him with a similar personality from our own party?</p>
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		<title>By: James Guglielmino</title>
		<link>http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/15/45/power-grab-3/#comment-143335</link>
		<dc:creator>James Guglielmino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 19:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24841#comment-143335</guid>
		<description>And, power corrupts. Hopefully, it will be for a great deal of good instead of the corruption that the corruption that the boy king has manifested.
Gug</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And, power corrupts. Hopefully, it will be for a great deal of good instead of the corruption that the corruption that the boy king has manifested.<br />
Gug</p>
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