Comments on: ‘Sweetie’? http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/ Keeping a jaundiced eye on the corporate media. Tue, 07 Oct 2008 17:01:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Bob http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143477 Bob Fri, 16 May 2008 00:26:41 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143477 zon "Honestly, I was trying to be reasonable and to find common ground. Nevermind." I sincerely apologize to you for my tone. Re-reading the exhange above I realize you were trying to engage and I was being snarky. I am sorry. zon “Honestly, I was trying to be reasonable and to find common ground. Nevermind.”
I sincerely apologize to you for my tone. Re-reading the exhange above I realize you were trying to engage and I was being snarky. I am sorry.

]]> By: Bob http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143475 Bob Fri, 16 May 2008 00:25:16 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143475 Zuzu: “How about you decide what’s important to you, and everyone else decides what’s important to them, mmmkay?” How is a statement beginning with the words “I think…” an effort to dictate to you what’s important? Expressing an opinion is not a demand for fealty. Zuzu: “How about you decide what’s important to you, and everyone else decides what’s important to them, mmmkay?”
How is a statement beginning with the words “I think…” an effort to dictate to you what’s important? Expressing an opinion is not a demand for fealty.

]]> By: Zon http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143474 Zon Fri, 16 May 2008 00:12:15 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143474 Honestly, I was trying to be reasonable and to find common ground. Nevermind. Honestly, I was trying to be reasonable and to find common ground. Nevermind.

]]> By: Bob http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143473 Bob Thu, 15 May 2008 22:58:31 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143473 Zon @ 17: “Bob, you keep wildly over-interpreting what people are saying. No one is saying that you need to keep repeating over and over again that the remark was inappropriate.” First, I am not only responding to this one post and the comments within this one post. I read this blog daily. I am responding to the gestalt – the over-the-top acceptance of one flawed centrist over the other – the “gotcha” environment in which a vote for AUMF and years of defending said vote is discussed calmly and rationally as smart politics while “…slip-ups by politicians on the stump 16 hours a day month after month” are treated as serious issues worthy of discussion. Lambert, votermom, white¬_n_az are here day after day playing this game. THAT is what I’m responding to. “In fact, no one is asking you to say anything.” And who is asking you to say anything? I mean, seriously, that is such a juvenile argument. The two worst arguments made on blogs are: 1 How dare you disagree on my blog? How dare I not? This is the new paradigm – this is where the rules of political discourse are going to be rewritten? You publish publicly, link to other sites, try to get other sites to link to you, include a comments section, and then….freak out when someone disagrees. Just pathetic. AND let me stress I am not saying I encountered that here. But I have seen the argument used dozens of times and it’s stupid, juvenile, and self-defeating. I commented in defense of Susie when she laid down her “rules for commenting” – so I do agree with a sense of decorum. What I don’t agree with is the notion that no one has the right to comment on what is published publicly. 2 No one asked you. While, no one asked you either. And I know you are but what am I. I’m rubber and you’re glue….That is not an invitation to dialogue. That is a “polite” way of saying shut up. Now if you write a comment I find as dumb as you seem to find my last couple and I respond “shut up” I’m guessing you’d find that offensive, juvenile, etc. Agreed. But it’s also direct and honest, which is more than I’ll say for “no one asked you.” No pretense please. If you’re gonna be rude, please, just be rude. Zon @ 17: “Bob, you keep wildly over-interpreting what people are saying. No one is saying that you need to keep repeating over and over again that the remark was inappropriate.”
First, I am not only responding to this one post and the comments within this one post. I read this blog daily. I am responding to the gestalt – the over-the-top acceptance of one flawed centrist over the other – the “gotcha” environment in which a vote for AUMF and years of defending said vote is discussed calmly and rationally as smart politics while “…slip-ups by politicians on the stump 16 hours a day month after month” are treated as serious issues worthy of discussion. Lambert, votermom, white¬_n_az are here day after day playing this game. THAT is what I’m responding to.
“In fact, no one is asking you to say anything.”
And who is asking you to say anything? I mean, seriously, that is such a juvenile argument. The two worst arguments made on blogs are:
1 How dare you disagree on my blog? How dare I not? This is the new paradigm – this is where the rules of political discourse are going to be rewritten? You publish publicly, link to other sites, try to get other sites to link to you, include a comments section, and then….freak out when someone disagrees. Just pathetic. AND let me stress I am not saying I encountered that here. But I have seen the argument used dozens of times and it’s stupid, juvenile, and self-defeating. I commented in defense of Susie when she laid down her “rules for commenting” – so I do agree with a sense of decorum. What I don’t agree with is the notion that no one has the right to comment on what is published publicly.
2 No one asked you. While, no one asked you either. And I know you are but what am I. I’m rubber and you’re glue….That is not an invitation to dialogue. That is a “polite” way of saying shut up. Now if you write a comment I find as dumb as you seem to find my last couple and I respond “shut up” I’m guessing you’d find that offensive, juvenile, etc. Agreed. But it’s also direct and honest, which is more than I’ll say for “no one asked you.” No pretense please. If you’re gonna be rude, please, just be rude.

]]> By: zuzu http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143470 zuzu Thu, 15 May 2008 22:41:41 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143470 <i>I think there are far more important things to be aggrieved about than a throwaway “sweetie” comment, especially one that was duly apologized for.</i> How about you decide what's important to you, and everyone else decides what's important to them, mmmkay? I think there are far more important things to be aggrieved about than a throwaway “sweetie” comment, especially one that was duly apologized for.

How about you decide what’s important to you, and everyone else decides what’s important to them, mmmkay?

]]> By: Zon http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143466 Zon Thu, 15 May 2008 21:57:01 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143466 <i> I am NOT denying the crassness nor inappropriateness of the remark. Now what? Do I have to say that every hour for the next day; week; month? What more is there to say? </i> Bob, you keep wildly over-interpreting what people are saying. No one is saying that you need to keep repeating over and over again that the remark was inappropriate. In fact, no one is asking you to say anything. All we are saying (or at least all I am saying) is, hey, it would be great if Obama avoided slip-ups that might seem condescending to women. If you & I agree on that (and I think we do) and if we agree that this is not the most important issue facing the world (and I think we do), then how about let's stop bickering, shall we? I am NOT denying the crassness nor inappropriateness of the remark. Now what? Do I have to say that every hour for the next day; week; month? What more is there to say?

Bob, you keep wildly over-interpreting what people are saying. No one is saying that you need to keep repeating over and over again that the remark was inappropriate. In fact, no one is asking you to say anything.

All we are saying (or at least all I am saying) is, hey, it would be great if Obama avoided slip-ups that might seem condescending to women. If you & I agree on that (and I think we do) and if we agree that this is not the most important issue facing the world (and I think we do), then how about let’s stop bickering, shall we?

]]> By: Bob http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143465 Bob Thu, 15 May 2008 21:34:24 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143465 zon: I wrote "it was a dumb word for him to use. He apologized. In a sane political environment that would be the beginning and end of it." I am NOT denying the crassness nor inappropriateness of the remark. Now what? Do I have to say that every hour for the next day; week; month? What more is there to say? votermom: "Where I worked, any guy stupid enough to call a co-worker “sweetie” dismissively could expect to be called down to HR faster than he could blink. Most white-collar work spaces, it’s the same thing. Same thing if someone were to call an male AA co-worker “boy”." I know just what you mean. I'm a supervisor and were I stupid enough to refer to my staff as "working, hard-working Americans, white Americans..." I would be called down to HR faster than I could blink. Clinton’s remark was also a crass and inappropriate remark – and as far as I know Clinton has yet to apologize. But again, so what? It’s not worth pounding into the ground. I think health care, the war in Iraq and the failing economy are real issuesworthy of our time. I think occasional slip-ups by politicians on the stump 16 hours a day month after month are trivial. Let.It.Go. zon: I wrote “it was a dumb word for him to use. He apologized. In a sane political environment that would be the beginning and end of it.” I am NOT denying the crassness nor inappropriateness of the remark. Now what? Do I have to say that every hour for the next day; week; month? What more is there to say?
votermom: “Where I worked, any guy stupid enough to call a co-worker “sweetie” dismissively could expect to be called down to HR faster than he could blink. Most white-collar work spaces, it’s the same thing. Same thing if someone were to call an male AA co-worker “boy”.”
I know just what you mean. I’m a supervisor and were I stupid enough to refer to my staff as “working, hard-working Americans, white Americans…” I would be called down to HR faster than I could blink. Clinton’s remark was also a crass and inappropriate remark – and as far as I know Clinton has yet to apologize. But again, so what? It’s not worth pounding into the ground. I think health care, the war in Iraq and the failing economy are real issuesworthy of our time. I think occasional slip-ups by politicians on the stump 16 hours a day month after month are trivial.
Let.It.Go.

]]> By: Zon http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143421 Zon Thu, 15 May 2008 20:36:10 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143421 Bob, I don't think that anyone is saying that using the word "sweetie" is as bad as endorsing the war. (Did anyone say that? If so, I missed it.) Come on, stop caricaturing people's positions. Believe it or not, a person can believe (1) Clinton's vote for the war was totally wrong; (2) Obama should not have made that comment, which was condescending and sexist. (1) does not negate (2). Nor are the actions in (1) and (2) being deemed morally equivalent by anyone (insofar as I have seen). Is the sweetie remark worth all this attention? Probably not. Should Obama try to be more careful in his remarks, lest he piss off women whose support he would like to obtain? Yes. Bob, I don’t think that anyone is saying that using the word “sweetie” is as bad as endorsing the war. (Did anyone say that? If so, I missed it.) Come on, stop caricaturing people’s positions. Believe it or not, a person can believe (1) Clinton’s vote for the war was totally wrong; (2) Obama should not have made that comment, which was condescending and sexist. (1) does not negate (2). Nor are the actions in (1) and (2) being deemed morally equivalent by anyone (insofar as I have seen). Is the sweetie remark worth all this attention? Probably not. Should Obama try to be more careful in his remarks, lest he piss off women whose support he would like to obtain? Yes.

]]> By: votermom http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143416 votermom Thu, 15 May 2008 19:14:56 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143416 That's not it, Bob. Where I worked, any guy stupid enough to call a co-worker "sweetie" dismissively could expect to be called down to HR faster than he could blink. Most white-collar work spaces, it's the same thing. Same thing if someone were to call an male AA co-worker "boy". Only new hires fresh out of college are inexperienced enough to say that in a professional setting. Maybe Wendy at #11 is right. That’s not it, Bob. Where I worked, any guy stupid enough to call a co-worker “sweetie” dismissively could expect to be called down to HR faster than he could blink. Most white-collar work spaces, it’s the same thing. Same thing if someone were to call an male AA co-worker “boy”.
Only new hires fresh out of college are inexperienced enough to say that in a professional setting. Maybe Wendy at #11 is right.

]]> By: Bob http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143415 Bob Thu, 15 May 2008 18:48:50 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143415 votermom @ 10. I know just what you mean. Imagine, someone who's been a politician long enough, a lawyer, and a Dem not only voting for AUMF but defending said vote for years and actually going into the primaries with it the centerpiece of his listed qualifications for the presidency. I mean really. Wait, I just checked something and.....my bad. I guess using the word sweetie is beyond the pale but voting for an obscene war and consigning hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of American soldiers to their deaths is shrewd politics. I just don't understand this crazy mixed up world. And a big ole BTW to zon - read votermom @ 10 - that's what I'm referring to. votermom @ 10. I know just what you mean. Imagine, someone who’s been a politician long enough, a lawyer, and a Dem not only voting for AUMF but defending said vote for years and actually going into the primaries with it the centerpiece of his listed qualifications for the presidency. I mean really.
Wait, I just checked something and…..my bad. I guess using the word sweetie is beyond the pale but voting for an obscene war and consigning hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of American soldiers to their deaths is shrewd politics.
I just don’t understand this crazy mixed up world.
And a big ole BTW to zon - read votermom @ 10 - that’s what I’m referring to.

]]> By: Bob http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143414 Bob Thu, 15 May 2008 18:39:21 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143414 zon: Spend any time reading blogs? Pay attention to any traditional media outlets? This story has been everywhere for the last 24 hours. Yup, it was a dumb word for him to use. He apologized. In a sane political environment that would be the beginning and end of it. Beating this teeny tiny horse into the ground is ridiculous. That's all the point I was making. Well, not entirely true. I was also making the point that someone needs to do a Kool Aid intervention on lambert. zon: Spend any time reading blogs? Pay attention to any traditional media outlets? This story has been everywhere for the last 24 hours. Yup, it was a dumb word for him to use. He apologized. In a sane political environment that would be the beginning and end of it. Beating this teeny tiny horse into the ground is ridiculous. That’s all the point I was making.
Well, not entirely true. I was also making the point that someone needs to do a Kool Aid intervention on lambert.

]]> By: Wendy Whinner http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143413 Wendy Whinner Thu, 15 May 2008 18:38:39 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143413 Obama - not ready for prime time. It is more and more obvious. Obama - not ready for prime time. It is more and more obvious.

]]> By: votermom http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143407 votermom Thu, 15 May 2008 17:34:58 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143407 I don't get how he can make such rookie mistakes. He's 47, he's been in politics long enough, he's a lawyer, and he's a Dem, he graduated from Harvard Law School ... I don’t get how he can make such rookie mistakes. He’s 47, he’s been in politics long enough, he’s a lawyer, and he’s a Dem, he graduated from Harvard Law School …

]]> By: Zon http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143399 Zon Thu, 15 May 2008 16:25:09 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143399 People can support Obama for president while still calling out actions that they believe are sexist. I think Obama's "sweetie" remark was condescending and deserved to be called out, and I think it is appropriate that he apologized. That certainly doesn't mean that I think he's unfit to be president. The implication that somehow criticizing Obama = voting for McCain strikes me as quite absurd. Or are we expected to relinquish all independent and critical thought? People can support Obama for president while still calling out actions that they believe are sexist. I think Obama’s “sweetie” remark was condescending and deserved to be called out, and I think it is appropriate that he apologized. That certainly doesn’t mean that I think he’s unfit to be president. The implication that somehow criticizing Obama = voting for McCain strikes me as quite absurd. Or are we expected to relinquish all independent and critical thought?

]]> By: joe http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143388 joe Thu, 15 May 2008 15:02:10 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143388 really, just calm down guys...or gals...or I meant um...oh crap. really, just calm down guys…or gals…or I meant um…oh crap.

]]> By: Bob http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143384 Bob Thu, 15 May 2008 13:35:22 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143384 Ok, I'll play along. Obama is unfit to be president because of his use of the word sweetie. Of course by the same logic Clinton is unfit to serve because of her use of the phrase "hard working white Americans." Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor to introduce the president of the United States and a man who will put an end to all this sexism and racism, President John McCain. OR, we could all take a few Ritalin, grow up, and try focusing on real issues for awhile. Lambert excepted of course, he knows what’s important and it ain’t ending 8 years of madness – it’s crucifying the flawed centrist who beat his preferred flawed centrist which will teach us all a lesson, yessiree bub! Btw Lambert, for one so quick to cry sexism I notice an intuitive acceptance of traditional views of the sexes in your first comment - the Mike Tyson “joke”. Let me see if I understand: would he call Mike Tyson “sweetie” – no of course not, because Tyson is a “real” man, unlike the feminine Obama….Don’t look now but your privilege is showing. Ok, I’ll play along. Obama is unfit to be president because of his use of the word sweetie.
Of course by the same logic Clinton is unfit to serve because of her use of the phrase “hard working white Americans.”
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor to introduce the president of the United States and a man who will put an end to all this sexism and racism, President John McCain.
OR, we could all take a few Ritalin, grow up, and try focusing on real issues for awhile.
Lambert excepted of course, he knows what’s important and it ain’t ending 8 years of madness – it’s crucifying the flawed centrist who beat his preferred flawed centrist which will teach us all a lesson, yessiree bub! Btw Lambert, for one so quick to cry sexism I notice an intuitive acceptance of traditional views of the sexes in your first comment - the Mike Tyson “joke”. Let me see if I understand: would he call Mike Tyson “sweetie” – no of course not, because Tyson is a “real” man, unlike the feminine Obama….Don’t look now but your privilege is showing.

]]> By: brendancalling http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143377 brendancalling Thu, 15 May 2008 11:59:15 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143377 I think there are far more important things to be aggrieved about than a throwaway "sweetie" comment, especially one that was duly apologized for. Especially when the shocked-just-shocked blogger reporting it lives in Philadelphia, a place that uses "hon" almost as much as Baltimore does. The ongoing quixotic Clinton's campaign is making it more likely that a REAL mysoginist like McCain will be elected, and the ramifications of that will be horrible. I think there are far more important things to be aggrieved about than a throwaway “sweetie” comment, especially one that was duly apologized for. Especially when the shocked-just-shocked blogger reporting it lives in Philadelphia, a place that uses “hon” almost as much as Baltimore does.

The ongoing quixotic Clinton’s campaign is making it more likely that a REAL mysoginist like McCain will be elected, and the ramifications of that will be horrible.

]]> By: lambert strether http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143368 lambert strether Thu, 15 May 2008 04:57:05 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143368 steveeboy: Keep digging.... steveeboy:

Keep digging….

]]> By: sister of ye http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143367 sister of ye Thu, 15 May 2008 04:35:29 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143367 Obama is such a juvenile. He reminds me of my younger brothers at their most obnoxious. Except they'd know better than to pull crap like that in a professional setting. Obama is such a juvenile. He reminds me of my younger brothers at their most obnoxious. Except they’d know better than to pull crap like that in a professional setting.

]]> By: hells kitchen http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143363 hells kitchen Thu, 15 May 2008 03:17:43 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143363 <blockquote>I expect that my press team will be happy to try to make it up to you whenever we are in Detroit next.</blockquote> He doesn't clean up his own mess? Didn't learn much in kindergarten, did he?

I expect that my press team will be happy to try to make it up to you whenever we are in Detroit next.

He doesn’t clean up his own mess? Didn’t learn much in kindergarten, did he?

]]> By: steveeboy http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143360 steveeboy Thu, 15 May 2008 02:42:27 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143360 at least he didn't say "periodically" or scratch his face with his two middle fingers. at least he didn’t say “periodically” or scratch his face with his two middle fingers.

]]> By: lambert strether http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/14/21/50/sweetie/#comment-143356 lambert strether Thu, 15 May 2008 02:21:43 +0000 http://susiemadrak.com/?p=24848#comment-143356 Apparently, he later apologized, saying he calls everyone that. As one of my commenters responded: Oh, Mike Tyson? Apparently, he later apologized, saying he calls everyone that.

As one of my commenters responded: Oh, Mike Tyson?

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