Mirror, Mirror
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:25 pm by Susie
Apparently I missed the big to-do today, in which Hillary Clinton is accused of encouraging/waiting for the assassination of Barack Obama.
Those of you who have so demonized this woman that you actually believe that - well, I think it says much more about you than it does about her. Really. You’ve gone off the deep end.
UPDATE: From RFK Jr:
“I’ve heard her make that argument before,” Mr. Kennedy said, speaking on his cell phone as he drove to the family compound in Hyannis for the holiday weekend. “It sounds like she was invoking a familiar historical circumstance in support of her argument for continuing her campaign.
“I understand how highly charged the atmosphere is, but I think it is a mistake for people to take offense.”
Ah, but WTF does he know? I mean, it’s only his dead father she was talking about!
A few things:
1. Yes, I am obviously an Obama supporter.
2. Yes, I am biased because I feel that Hillary’s ego is damaging our chance at real change in the white house.
3. Regardless, as someone who heard for years growing up that the first black president would only last a day before being killed, this was a truly unexcusable comment. And the odd thing is that she’s made the statement many times before which means (a) at some point her team sat down and determined that this was a good idea and (b) they ignored all of the less inflammatory examples of late-decided elections (Mondale’s for example) and went with the one that had a guy getting killed.
4. And it’s the 40th anniversary of that man getting killed.
5. and Ted Kennedy just found out he was going to die.
Geezus. You are generally pretty rational. Please admit that this was a collosal blunder. Superdelegates that were on the fence are now going to run to Obama in droves. Obama played it cool this week, and Clinton ended up killing herself.
But the bigger point is this:
How could someone so obviously smart make such a ridiculously insensitive statement? Correction, I understand how this can happen (”Bitter”). The real question is whether those that pounced on Obama for a poor choice of words will realize that the traps we lay sometimes come back to bite the people that lay them.
This is a sad moment. I think that the Clinton’s did a lot for black people over the years, but this was sort of the last straw for me.
Hinting that you are staying in because Obama could be assasinated (and really, that’s exactly what her statement means when you get down to it) is really too much.
She’s toast.
Oh for Christ’s sake only total whack jobs are saying anything like “Hillary is encouraging Obama’s assassination”. That’s a far out just plain ignorant strawman argument. Hope you enjoyed knocking it down. You certainly deserve to since it was 100% YOUR argument and yours alone.
What Clinton said was patently stupid and made it sound like she is staying in the race just in case someone does assassinate him. It was extraordinarily bad wording, but after her “gotcha” bullshit with both Rev Wright and the “bitter” comment she’s just getting EXACTLY what she’s been dishing out.
What goes around comes around, and like folks around here have been saying about Clinton’s attacks on Obama’s words - if she can’t take it she should quit now.
Oh yeah, Obama’s campaign has officially said they do not believe that she meant even the “waiting for someone else” interpretation and Axelrod refused to bite when Chris Mathews kept trying to goad him into making something more of it. I guess you all will now say how weak that makes Obama because he refuses to attack when she’s down like she attacked him and piled on at his lowest points of BS media spin.
When you make someone’s misspeaking a CENTRAL THEME of your campaign, like Hillary did in Pennsylvanis, you have zip to complain about when others do the same to you.
I used to admire her and Bill. I still rally to her defense when some media gas pulls yet another in an endless chain of sexist insults out of his ass.
But Obama will raise Dem turnout, which is what it’s all about. Hillary will raise wingnut turnout, at a time when they can’t get enthusiastic for McCain.
Obama, like Hillary, will nominate sane judges to the courts, especially the Supreme Court.
As the said in “The Godfather”… “This is business, it’s not personal. I like ‘em both, but Barak makes it winnable. I’d embrace any Dem, except Lieberman, to make it happen.
The Obama overreaction does nothing to gain the support of that 50% of the Democratic primary voters who voted for Clinton. But then, maybe he doesn’t need all of their votes, anyway???
WTF - The “Obama overreaction” was to deny that Clinton meant anything at wrong all by what she said.
He’s already outclassed her reactions to his bad wording by miles and miles!
very sad. hrc even talking abt a popular candidate being killed the same week his brother announces a terminal brain tumor…her judgment is correctly being called to question. Of course, everyone knows things can happen, some nominees have gotten the nomination late in jun - we all understand that and we understand one particular popular candidate was shot in jun. given whom OB has been compared to and the history of AA leaders being targeted, this was collosal poor judgment - not just a choice of words. She was invoking the meme that “things have happend in the past - who knows??” and to remind us that “things” include someone getting killed is way over the line…everything said and every action she takes is about her - not the party, not the public, not the issues…HER. I withdraw my comment abt hrc being a fine candidate as a SC justice. Even Harriett Myers wouldn’t have said something so incredibly tasteless, foul and reprehesible. To say it this week, with the tumor, and the upcoming 40th anniversay just weeks away is utterly disqualifying.
The clintons have no shame, no class and finally without a doubt, no chance. This is how she pays back Ted…by reminding everyone how his popular brother was killed and using it as justification to continue her kamikaze campaign. Tonight she will bow to the emporer, sip her warm sake and rest - to again tomorrow climb back in the Zero-chance to dive bomb dem chances in Nov.
A fine candidate you have in hrc…you can take pride in her Atwater/Rove style and history of viciousness. She has succeeded in making this campaign a mockery. She deserves everything coming to her - including an upcoming senate defeat. She has set-back the chances of a woman being elected president by a generation or more.
In order:
1. I am sure that Hillary doesn’t want Obama dead. The problem is her absolute tone-deafness.
2. Biggest Clinton Myth: Every person that voted for Hillary will not vote for Obama. Look, there are dems who don’t even like to vote in primaries. They only vote in the GE. If the choice is Obama or more of the same, I like Obama’s chances. If he doesn’t win in this environment and with this kind of cash and strategy, the country really is racist.
That fact in itself will move things forward. Look people, this is the year that the brown paper bag on his head democrat should win. H*ll, I could win. There is a reason that Hillary is fighting so hard. A chance like this comes once in a generation. There just aren’t that many presidents as bad as Bush out there to follow.
For the first time in this entire campaign I feel general anger towards the Clinton types. This is a situation where she was wrong, everyone kows she was wrong, and they won’t admit it.
Then again, this makes some sense.
They still think that she can win.
And the weirdest thing is that Obama isn’t even the one reacting. The response was extremely restrained.
Sharp.
add to that the recent shit Huckabee took for “joking” abt OB having to dive off a chair when someone took a shot at him. just completely brainless…maybe she was tired, mis-spoke, mis-remembered…whatever…
Of course she is not “encouraging/waiting” for someone to assassinate OB…but the utter gall of thinking she can say anything she wants and not be held accountable is maddening. first “hard working white voters” and now reminding us she is staying in because things happen like well, you know…getting killed…as if she ouldn’t be the front-runner as a replacement nominee to OB if something happend even if she conceded/put campaign on haitus 60 days ago!! people actually think she is a genuis politician and public servant!!?? No thank you!
Angry Black Guy, Obama’s supporters should follow his lead. Gene Lyons recently wrote:
“Many citizens who would vote for an African-American without a second thought are put off by a candidate who makes race the central issue of his campaign. Winning tactic, losing strategy.”
That, of course, is sugar coating it, but many white voters who might have voted for an African-American (maybe reluctantly, maybe not) are put off by it. It doesn’t help to hear Obama supporters say, as you did:
Regardless, as someone who heard for years growing up that the first black president would only last a day before being killed, this was a truly unexcusable comment
that Clinton can’t say the same things in a race with a black opponent as she would in a race with a white opponent. In fact, it creates a lot of angry white guys. Maybe it shouldn’t, but I wouldn’t try to use an election as an educational opportunity.
I truly first became aware of backlash from personal observation in early January. At a family gathering I turned on MSNBC and a couple of relatives who were starting to think that Obama was a black guy that they could vote for were very turned off by the cries of racism from Obama supporters. Putting the TV on the pro-Obama network actually hurt Obama. Maybe it was my fault for failing to convince them that it was, in fact, blatantly racist for a Clinton supporter to mention something that Obama wrote in his own book.
What we say in the comments here dosn’t matter, but every time I hear somebody making that kind of statement on TV, I know that there are at least a couple of people that I’ll be trying to convince to stay home in January. Five or six months ago, I thought I’d be trying to get them to vote in November.
Mmm, so we shouldn’t call Hillary on ot when she says stuff that’s racist or insane. Right. Got it.
Anyway, just a bizarre utterance on Hillary’s part. Having been asked why she doesn’t buy the “party unity” argument for her to drop out of the primary race, Hillary responds that Bill didn’t wrap up his nomination in ‘92 until mid June (reasonable enough), but then goes on to add,
“We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. Um you know I just I don’t understand it. There’s lots of speculation about why it is.”
WTF does RFK being assassinated have to do with her continuing her campaign? I understand that she’s referring to the nomination at that time being unsettled because of the assassination, but how does that parallel the current situation? And … is it REALLY a good idea to reference the ‘68 Dem National Convention if you’re trying to buiild a case that party unity is … secondary?
Tone deaf and ill advised comments from HRC, to say the very least. That’s being kind.
bayoustjohndavid - you actually know people who base their vote on what a candidate’s supporters say? Not anything the candidate or anyone associated with his campaign in ANY ways says - just run of the mill supporters off the street?
Wow
Scary
I guess the same was missing from the last comment that’s been missing from most of these discussions — the rather obvious fact that racial prejudice is the exact opposite of pregnancy. Not only is it possible to be a little prejudiced, most people are, at the very least, a little prejudiced. Leave the complete bigots out of the discussion. On the other end of the spectrum, leave out the people who are either prejudice-free or who never listen to their prejudices. The question is, how do you reach the somewhat prejudiced, but not irredeemably so? Specious charges of racism are the surest way to turn off such people.
Oh, and as usual, the Rude Pundit has some pithy commentary:
” … someone really ought to point out to the Clinton campaign that the presidential campaign of 1968 was not a two- or three-year long process. The New Hampshire primary, the first in the nation, wasn’t until March 12. Kennedy didn’t even get into the running until March 16, 1968.
BY JUNE 4, 1968, the date of the California primary that Kennedy won, a date that’s four months later than this year’s California primary, THERE HAD ONLY BEEN 13 primaries. Indeed, running until the convention was the only choice, especially after Kennedy was killed on June 5.
By June 5 this year, every state will have had its primaries or caucuses. It’s not that people were any more patient in 1968. They just didn’t have a choice but to wait and see.”
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2008/05/hillary-clinton-rfks-ass-was-capped-all.html
you actually know people who base their vote on what a candidate’s supporters say? Not anything the candidate or anyone associated with his campaign in ANY ways says - just run of the mill supporters off the street?
Are you serious? I said what we say doesn’t matter, the reaction was to what they heard on TV. But as a matter of fact, the emotional reactions of potential voters are very complex, and negative reactions are at least as important as positive ones.
However, at first, I tried to point out that, with few exceptions (Donna Brazile’s fairy tale) it was Clinton-haters in the media crying racism. They insisted that Obama was encouraging it, turns out (Amaya Smith) that the people that were barely paying attention had better judgment than I did.
How many times have heard Clinton attacked because of her supporters, both in the campaign and the run of the mill type? So, again, memyself, are you serious?
Macjazz, where did I say we shouldn’t call her on racist stuff? Like fairy tale or drug use that was in Obama’s own book. Despite the efforts to say it started with Clinton’s mention of Jesse Jackson, that’s where it started. I’m afraid that we’ve heard so many absurd charges of racism directed against Clinton that it’s going to be a lot harder to make that charge in the GE.
If you think the nomination is still in doubt, her statement can certainly be used as evidence that she would be more mistake prone in the GE. If you’re going to try to make more of it, you better be prepared to say what Clinton was trying to accomplish. Remember it wasn’t a prepared speech or even a televised interview. At least, it didn’t appear to be a TV interview, but I assume she knew it was being recorded.
I’ve always heard that the 1968 California primary appeared to be turning point until Kennedy was shot, that seemed to be what she was trying to evoke. A clumsy statement in an untelevised interview or a scorched earth tactic? I know what Occam’s razor leads me to believe.
at least she didn’t say “bitter,” “periodically,” or scratch her face with two fingers!
LATTE TIME!!!
Well, the similarities are obvious:
1. RFK came from a well known family.
2. RFK was running for a government position previously held by a family member.
3. and RFK was behind in the delegate count.
Why, that’s *EXACTLY* like Barack Obama, if you spelled his name H-I-L-L-A-R-Y C-L-I-N-T-O-N.
*sheesh*
You Obama supporters have got to stop gazing so adoringly at your navels. It’s not always about you and your Tony Blair-alike candidate.
Nobody is saying thatHillary is calling fo Obama to be assassinated, that’s just something HRC supporters are lying about to try and deflect the issue of how completely and utterly tasteless HRC is being here.\
As for those who claim we’re just making political hay out of this, I have two words for you: Jeremiah Wright.
That will be all.
Calls for Hillary to die, some implicit, some explicit, and some violent (apparently today in DKos comments) have been around since forever. Heck I bought her book when some idiot on TV said he wanted to whack her over the head with a tire iron, and Chris Matthews thought that was hilarious. I’m sure you are all outraged at the non-stop fantasies of doing violent things to Hillary Clinton, going on for years now.
I agree with Susie. The hatefulness implicit it the interpretation of many Obama supporters is debased. Who among those who remember RFK’s campaign remembers without the same thought including the utter tragedy of his death. In the memory they are co-mingled. Who can talk about one without the other?
Not everything is about Obama. I agree with the commentator from the bayou. The hate revealed here is going to bring your candidate down.
I applaud Hillary for speaking the truth for a change. She IS just hanging around, waiting for something dire to happen (even if it’s just a super-scandal)–it’s her ONLY chance for the nomination. I actually don’t blame her, except it was a little tacky considering what the Kennedys have been going through.
But Susie, I’d like to see some documentation on Obama supporters suggesting Hillary is encouraging someone to attack him. You’re enough of a journalist to know not to throw such a blanket over everyone who disagrees with your choice for the nomination.
Hate revealed here??? Say what??? On the Bizarro Planet maybe. Here on Earth, the great majority of the comments in this thread are reasonable thoughts about what Clinton said, whether one agrees with those comments or not. You can find a couple of statements you might point to as objectionable, perhaps, but overall the comments are on point and mostly unrefuted. (You can’t refute an argument by making ad hominem remarks about hatefulness.)
“Why, [the RFK analogy is] *EXACTLY* like Barack Obama, if you spelled his name H-I-L-L-A-R-Y C-L-I-N-T-O-N.”
So Hillary’s saying she needs to keep running, into June, because, she’s like RFK, who was assassinated in June? Wait … I’m confused … bzzzt fzzkkllh zzrkkk .. does not compute … does not compute … Oh! I get it! you’re trying to fry our engrams with a logical parodox, like they used to do to computers on those old Star Trek episodes! Very clever Captain!
As I elaborated before, Hillary’s comment referencing RFK was tone deaf and ill advised. And nonsensical too, as the Rude Pundit quote makes clear. People can dismiss this as being “hateful” talk (though in all honesty, that’s a puzzling description), but calling it hateful doesn’t answer it or refute it. Ad hominem responses never do.
Just curious, but why does this blog seem to get almost exclusively anti-Clinton reply posts, when it is a pro-Clinton blog (although obviously a lot more than just that)? I’m not suggesting that anyone shouldn’t have the right to post, but it does seem strange to me. It certainly can’t be because you want to enlighten us with your unorthodox views on Clinton and Obama because we can get your take from everywhere we look - from NBC,CNN, FOX, most other blogs,and our friends and family.
Wow, I thought I entered Bizarro Land a long time ago, during the 2000 election theft. It didn’t occur to me that seemingly logical, intelligent Democrats could stoop so low to defend the utterly indefensible–the kinds of defenses a lot of us (Dems, liberals, progressives, whatever we call ourselves) attribute to Republicans’ astonishing loyalty to our current War-Criminal-in-Chief. I haven’t understood how Hillary supporters justified their candidate’s lies, distortions, and triangulations–let alone her horrifying statements about obliterating an entire country (Iran).
And now, these totally outrageous comments invoking the specter of her opponent being assassinated!!! Not just extremely distasteful but inflammatory, reckless, irresponsible and potentially dangerous. Who would Hillary choose as her VP, Mike “Let’s Watch the Nigger Fall to the Floor! haw-haw-haw” Huckabee??!!
This sounds like something a conservative (a thinking conservative, not some Rapture freak) might say, but–Whatever happened to some basic notion of right and wrong, that most of us can agree upon? Like invoking the “A” word–about a family that has suffered multiple “A’s” and other tragedies (and don’t even get me started on the timing!!). No matter how you want to parse her intentions/motivations, etc., what she said is on the record, and will be played over and over again. Are some of you so dulled by the horrific violence inflicted by this government against Iraq, and everything it has done to bankrupt our country, morally–perhaps irreparably (last time I checked, you can’t reverse mass murder)–are you so dulled by all of this insanity that you can no longer see clearly what is right in front of your eyes??!!
Of course, anyone delusional enough to defend Killary at this point is beyond talking to. They drank the Kool-Aid, and there may be no coming back.
What are you, twelve? Go work out your mother issues on some other blog, Ken. Buh bye!
Wait we are talking about politicians here…right? Some of you people who want a “saint” for a candidate, either Saint Barry or Mother Hillary need to address your own personal spiritual issues.
The New York Post inserted Obama into those comments. Then it was picked up by Drudge and traveled the well-worn path to the teevee.
But I guess Drudge is okay if he appears to be on your side.
My real point is that this campaign has been full of “gotchas” on both sides which have nothing to do with what the candidates will actually do as president.
Don’t try to get traction out of the “bitter” comment and then pretend that the stretched interpretation of the RFK comment is way out of line.
I don’t mind candidates using any ammo they have and Hillary gave Obama some pretty good ammo on this. Likewise, I was frustrated at the Wright flap and Bittergate, but Obama gave his opponent that ammo. What are you going to do.
The only unsupportable position is one in which you attack the other guy/person and then get upset when the tables are turned and the same tactics are used.
Hillary screwed up. It really was a fairly offensive comment for any number of reasons. It is easy for people to brush it off as nothing, but I can tell you that for a huge chunk of the population that still can’t believe that a black man actually has a chance, the suggestion that he could be killed plays into our greatest fears. She has to take the hit in the same way that Obama did over the word bitter.
That’s the game. Don’t hate the player(s), hate the game (if you have to hate anything).
Macjazz, I mostly agree with you. So, I think we’d both agree that the overblown emotional reactions to an ill-advised statement are absurd. Makes me wonder why Rude Pundit devoted so much space to it. Any emotional reaction that I had was based on coming into this comment thread shortly after hearing clowning Keith’s moral posturing on the subject.
For the record, the theory that I’ve had since early January was that, if Obama gets the nomination, the GE will come down to which side handles racial issues better. If the Republicans, or their surrogates, cross lines that are widely seen as unacceptable, they lose. If Democrats are seen as crying racism at the drop of a hat, they lose. Saying Hillary’s ill-advised comment had anything to do with with Obama being African-American doesn’t help. It’s not a novel idea to suggest that undecided voters are as swayed by what they hear around them as what they hear on TV.
Look this is Ms. Clinton’s 3rd reference to assination in about two months. The first was just as it became apparent to everyone that under the existing rules she couldn’t win. Since then the Clintons’ and their surrogates have been implying that Obama can’t win “white Americans.”
Feminists of all ilks, including Obama supporters,have been correctly critical of the “sweetie” remark and the inadequate Obama apology.
Would it be acceptable for the Obama Campaign to start arguing that Ms. Clinton’s sex might make her unelectable? I don’t think so.
Susie, I respectfully ask who has gone off the deep end?
What is appending a Republican Bigot’s remarks along with your post meant to imply, that Obama is responsible?
I don’t remember Clinton’s three references to assassination, so I googled “Clinton assassination” and came up with a couple of references to assassination plots against President Clinton, and a link that was “The assassination of Hillary Clinton.” On the first page. Maybe assassination is a little more common subject in some circles than in others.
This is just another 2 minutes of talk out of how many? I didn’t like the bitter comment, I admit. I haven’t liked a lot of things that have been said by pretty much everybody.
I think I’ve hit the “whatever” stage.
You are absofuckinglutely right. These others need to get a grip on reality. Stay in touch. Keep up the good work.