Suburban Guerrilla

Show Me

Jun 28th, 2008 at 3:29 pm by Susie

I think I have to disagree with Digby here when she assures me that Obama is lots better than McCain. I mean, yes, I think Obama is lots better than McCain, if only because it’s hard to imagine he’d be worse, but: I’m tired of having to make that assumption. I’m tired of just hearing it from his supporters or other Dems who want me to vote for him. Most of all, I’m tired of having to keep saying it to my readers when he keeps doing things that tell me I can’t rely on his judgment. He had to be told that voting for Roberts was a bad idea? He actually says out loud that we need this new FISA bill for the sake of our national security? Are you really better than McCain, Barack? Then show me. Do the right thing. Quit sounding like just another fear-mongering, liberal-hating Republican and do the business. No one’s going to vote against you for blocking the FISA bill.

Posted in Politics As Usual

12 Responses to “Show Me”

on 28 Jun 2008 at 4:43 pm1merciless

Yes, yes, yes. The husband was trying to beat me down the other day, saying, “Come on! Of COURSE Obama is better than McCain!”

I haven’t really seen it yet.

Now, I’ll give Obama some credit; he’s younger, healthier, probably smarter, better educated, and clearly not insane. But is that really enough?

And between the Roberts story and last week’s FISA debacle, I’m left in the same place as Avedon. He’s backing off his previous positions, and who’s to say that he won’t do the same, once inaugurated, with Iraq? Wouldn’t a Supreme Court nominee be a perfect opportunity to show his bipartisan credentials?
on 28 Jun 2008 at 6:47 pm2sister of ye

Both men, McCain and Obama, change positions as often as they change their underwear. (Well, one assumes they change their underwear at least as often.) Who can figure out what they “really think”?

If I’m to believe that Obama is merely strategizing (lying) now to win the GE, there’s no reason not to think that McCain has been strategizing (lying) by tacking farther right, and once elected will return to his more moderate positions of the past, especially since he indicated that he’ll only serve a single term.

We don’t need political analysts, we need flippin’ psychics to read their minds.
on 28 Jun 2008 at 7:28 pm3Macjazz

Oh for heavens sake. We’ve all been through this territory a dozen times already. Is anyone really so lacking in information that they can’t tell which candidate will be better?

Let’s see … McCain was one of the prime instigators of the Iraq invasion, a neocon’s neocon, touting that “We’ll be welcomed as liberators” when we invade. Obama … wasn’t. And in fact spoke out against the war at a time when it was rather unpopular to do so. “But … but … he tested the political winds before he spoke out!” Yeah, and so what? He went ahead and spoke out, while McCain was busy oiling up the War Machine.

Jesus Christ, how much more do you need? McCain talks of staying in Iraq for a hundred years, while Obama speaks of finding a way out, and actually … negotiating! … with foreign leaders. For which McCain derides him as being “soft on terror”.

Obama’s voting record is very very similar to Hillary’s, whom most of the “why not vote for McCain” crowd supported. While McCain’s voting record is quite different from both of them. Do the math, people.

These guys are politicians. That’s what they are. Why would we expect them not to be? Obama is “running to the center”, just as Hillary would have done. And just as McCain is doing, to some degree. It’s not pretty, and it’s not what I want. But one candidate is very clearly likely to be less damaging than the other.

Is this really hard for anyone to see? Come on already, get real. This is past tiresome. Vote for Obama, don’t vote for Obama … whatever. Let’s not pretend there’s no difference between the candidates - that’s partly how we got these eight years of Bush. Remember? How do we like him, NOW??? Does anyone now still believe, as was said at the time, that there was no real difference between Bush and Al Gore? Anyone?

Sheesh.

P.S. - McCain was a “moderate” in the past??? I’ll have some of whatever you’re smoking. And he says he’ll only serve one term? Why would anyone believe such nonsense? He’ll serve however long he can.
on 28 Jun 2008 at 11:20 pm4steveeboy

thank you sir, you saved me some typing.
on 29 Jun 2008 at 9:19 am5k

But the Holy Center is not what the people are asking for, crying for, voting for. So why the fuck run for the center? Especially if you call yourself a fucking patriot, and proud of whatever? Why trash the Constitution, for a few piddly votes? Answer me this stuff, don’t wave that stick around and call it a magic wand.
on 29 Jun 2008 at 9:23 am6k

I like this quote from Avedon, also.
“Creepy guys cheering a creepy move even farther to the right.”
Nice rhythm.
on 29 Jun 2008 at 11:16 am7Macjazz

The “center” (that mythical place) is what presidential candidates always run toward after the primaries. We may not like it (I don’t like it), but it’s what they do, consistently. All of ‘em. I agree that caving on FISA/telecom issues was a bad move, and maybe not even necessary politically. Obama obviously thought it was neceasary, but it sucks either way.

Let’s not confuse that with there being no difference, or little difference, between the candidates. There is a difference, for all the reasons I listed and many others as well.

These people are politicians. That’s what they are. That’s the show folks, don’t expect anything else. Which leads to things like Obama’s recent FISA cave in, or for that matter, Hillary’s dodging of the vote on the issue this past winter. Or McCain playing to his base by loudly throwing down the Terror card, and calling Obama soft. Etc., etc., etc.

None of which changes the fact that there are real, palpable differences in how they’ll govern, as we see from their voting records and backgrounds, etc.

Obama, McCain, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, George Bush … they’re all liars to one degree or another - it’s what politicians do. Does that mean there’s no difference between them? Don’t think so.
on 29 Jun 2008 at 11:35 am8JEM

WELL, there is an actual convention in Denver is a bit… if this guy who was shoved down our throats is a wanker, who says we can’t do a bit of a shuffle shift ourselves… yank the wanker weak-kneed switch-baiter off the ballot and put Hillary back on. She has a real track record not just some charisma-hyped type

About time everyone in the Democratic party woke up and realized they’ve been drinking Obama Koolaid
on 29 Jun 2008 at 11:58 am9brendancalling

you’re not going to see me defending obama on the FISA bullshit.

Interestingly, neither will many of Obama’s supporters: I joined the “Vote No on FISA” group at Obama.com, and since Friday it’s become the biggest group on his site, with 2000 members. Also, my inbox is now full of anti-FISA emails to Obama from his supporters. I’ll be posting a screenshot later today.

That said Obama WILL be better than McCain simply because he’s not a 2,000 year old psychotic with a chip on his shoulder and a penchant for tantrums.
on 29 Jun 2008 at 6:33 pm10John Gall

Interesting - how many ignore your point and go somewhere else.
Obama lies. That’s a fact. That’s bad. I should defend and vote for a liar?
on 29 Jun 2008 at 6:40 pm11k

Clinton was the evil triangulator. Obama was all about the change. So this must be better.
on 30 Jun 2008 at 12:01 am12Macjazz

John, k - You’re not even bothering to read what I wrote:

“Obama, McCain, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, George Bush … THEY’RE ALL LIARS to one degree or another - IT’S WHAT POLITICIANS DO. Does that mean there’s no difference between them? Don’t think so.”

“There is a difference, for all the reasons I listed and many others as well.”

“These people are politicians. That’s what they are. That’s the show folks, don’t expect anything else.”

Etc. But enjoy venting if you want … this stuff isn’t hard to see if you have an open mind and are willing to look at all the facts. Some people will, some won’t. C’est la vie.

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