I’m not saying that no one should ever take anti-depressants. I’m saying these are powerful chemicals that actually affect the way the brain works, we’re not sure of their mechanism and they only work for less than half of the people who take them.
And they need to be much more closely monitored, especially in the withdrawal stage. Why is it that just about every person who snaps out and shoots people like this was either on, or recently stopped taking these medications?
Steven Kazmierczak, who killed five students and himself at Northern Illinois University on Thursday, gave some strong clues in his final weeks that he could become violent, and learning to heed such clues might help prevent similar tragedies, mental health experts say.
Kazmierczak, 27, called his girlfriend, Jessica Baty, the night before the shootings to say goodbye and asked her “not to forget about him,” she told CNN.
A graduate student at the University of Illinois, Kazmierczak was an anxious person with obsessive-compulsive tendencies who had been prescribed Prozac but stopped taking it three weeks before the shootings because the pills “made him feel like a zombie,” Baty said.
So, this guy had a documented history of mental illness, and the Virginia Tech shooter had a long documented history of mental illness. Yet, they were both able to buy guns legally… WTF?
American zombies? How do you tell the difference between the medicated and the normal?
paxil has saved my life and the lives of a few friends and family members. It is VERY effective if the patient actually wants to be better. Those that feel like zombies likely felt like a zombie before the meds. The meds don’t make the darkness go away - it just gives you space to deal with it.
Let’s be clear: It’s the pharmaceutical companies who admit their drugs only work on 30% or less of the people who take them. No need to attack patients for whom they didn’t work by saying they didn’t want to be better, simply because they work for you. Not everyone’s system is the same.
I don’t know about OCD and anti-depressants, but I do know that for people with depression who have suicidal plans but are too depressed to act on them, when they first start on anti-depressants it is crucial to have them under a watchful eye because there is a period where they at a high risk for acting on their suicidal plans. My dr explained it to me as the pills kicking in to give energy (to act out the plan) before it raises the mood (to make the plan obsolete).
In any case, prescribing pills should be accompanied by therapy, but pills are cheaper and easier so many times that’s all the patient gets.
They are cheaper and easier, but another distinction that the pills have with therapy is that they actually work. Not all the time, but sometimes which is better than none of the time. Psychological therapy is one of the bigger loads of bullshit ever ladled out to a desperate public.
WTF is going on with these people with mental problems getting guns? Thank God we have tougher regulations on assault rifles…we do don’t we? That’s pretty f*&ked up when loonies get guns. Yeah, we’ll remember him alright. He’s the one that’ll help convince us to lock up these nut-jobs even tighter and quit babying them all.
The fact of the matter is ALL of these psychiatric “medications” carry a number of lethal side effects. There is no doubt in my mind that every single school shooter either being on these psychotropic drugs or attempting withdrawal was the cause of the shooting. I don’t care what the studies say about the “slight risk” of side effects. Nearly all of the studies that show the opposite statistics are hidden anyway. The truth of the matter is that until we, as a society, realize that drugging our children as a solution to mental woes is not the answer, we will continue to have school shootings. They will continue in full force. Trust me, I hate saying that. After all, I myself am in college, and I worry nearly every day in class that one of my classmates will suffer the side effects of their “medication” and within an instant I, along with the rest of my class, will be dead.
OMG!! The average person is so ignorant of mental illness and depression. I have suffered from clinical depression for years and only PROZAC was able to save my life. I was blessed to have an excellent psychiatrist who monitored my usage of the drug. As with any other “powerful” drug, when stopping the drug it is recommended that the patient wean themselves off gradually. I did this twice and had no significant side effects, I did however have a very violent reaction to the drug WELLBUTRIN when taking it for smoking cessation and was near suicide before I realized it. These drugs affect the chemical make-up of the BRAIN!!! What the hell do you think will happen if you stop the drug abruptly?????
I recommend everyone read the book by famed psychologist Thomas Szasz “They Myth of Mental Illness”. He describes that until 1960 the DSM (diagnostic and statistical manual) on psychology was about 100 pages, today it’s about 600. I can guarantee if any sane person reads the manual they can find at least 1 diagnosis that would categorize them to see a psychologist. We have to remember that in normal medicine doctors search for a pathological cause for an illness using laboratory tests, blood work etc. Psychologists have no such tests for diagnosing mental illness. It is all based on perceived behavior, usually indicated by the patient. This to me is pseudoscience. While I don’t discount the fact of serious mental illness able to be seen via MRI, CAT or other medical tests. Having an anxiety or depression can be solved more readily with psychotherapy than with these mind altering drugs which big pharmaceutical companies deem as safe with very few tests all for the sake of profit. This bottom line type of mentality serves no benefit to society nor patient, as seen with the recent string of violent attacks resulting from the use of these dangerous drugs. Make no mistake it does boil down to money. We make natural substances illegal (pot) yet these dangerous chemicals are pushed on our children like candy. This must come to an end.
Unfortunately these drugs are prescribed way to often as a first option as opposed to a last desperate option. And since this is the case this will tragically not be the last shooting we encounter. But happily there are alternatives to these horrendous drugs. I have seen personally and heard many stories of people going off their medications(under supervision of course) and starting a strict exercise and vitamin regime coupled with a change in diet and these people move onto a healthy & HAPPY life. There are so many factors that need to be looked into before taking the easy prescription way out. For instance it has proven that food allergies can affect mood as well as your activity level and even if you do all these and you are still not happy than ask yourself “Did I produce anything today”. Sure you took your vitamins, ran on a treadmill, went to work and punched your time card but did you actually produce something that makes you proud. This can be something as simple as finishing an unfinished task around your house. It’s amazing how could you feel when you shut off the TV and go draw a picture, write a poem or even something as simple as cleaning out your closet. Doing simple things can change your mood instantly and if you start to feel down again go do something else that makes you feel good. Go give a hamburger to a homeless person or start that novel you always wanted to write. The bottom line is do things that make you happy and does not cause harm to others and not what other people want you to do. But first see your doctor and have them help you get off your meds and have them design an exercise, vitamin, and diet regime that will help you lead a happier life. If they truly care about you and not their wallet then they will be happy to do this for you. Because remember this Psychs and Drug companies only make money if you are sick so it’s naturally in their best interest to make sure you stay sick.
I have always had a really strong mind. But a few years ago I went through a messy divorce that left me shaken and depressed. My doctor gave me Zoloft which is similiar to Prozac. After taking that for a couple of months I started to feel really strange. For the first time in my life I thought I was going to lose my mind. This medication was seriously affecting my thoughts. I stopped taking it immediately and it took quite a while to feel normal again. I will never tale any of those mind altering drugs again. I feel there is also a “rebound” affect if you stop taking this medication suddenly. By that I mean you get even more depressed or lose even more control of your mind as your brain tries to re-adjust. I have no doubt in my mind that it was the drugs that caused this tragedy. The pharmacuetical companies need to be reigned in.
Look, as someone who is the spouse with anxiety and depression I have seen this disease up close and personal for an extended length of time.
It is *not* always more easily/better solved with psychotherapy. For many, there is a strong biological component to their issues and the medication allows them the space to work on other underlying issues in psychotherapy. But without the medication they cannot even begin to tackle their issues in traditional talk therapy.
Yes, people need to be properly monitored by their doctors. Yes, there are risks involved. I’m sorry, but life is not a risk-free proposition. Without these medications, the lives of millions of people would be miserable and unlivable.
Everyone is looking for someone to blame in regards to school violence. We all want there to be a reason for someone to do this. The truth is that there is no good reason that it happens. Just like a lot of terrible things in this world, it happens. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t work to prevent it, but blaming an entire class medications that are incredibly beneficial to the majority of patients who use them properly is short-sighted at best and ignorant at worst.
Yeah…i actually thought of this randomly last night, but what if this guy was trying to send us a message?
It sounds like this guy was an awesome student, son, boyfriend, ect. He had a degree in Sociology and was living the dream… So why would he decide to kill a mass amount of people? Why students? And why with a shotgun and handguns? He had taken advice from dealers, got info online, ordered from websites that another shooter had purchased from. He should have known that there are better ways to achieve his goals of killing people.
I am honestly starting to think that he was trying to show how common those two types of weapons are, and how easy it is to kill a lot of people with them. WITHOUT GUN CONTROL, THIS PROBLEM WILL ONLY GET BIGGER!!!!
Not saying they have to be banned, but if there are corporations our there mass producing them, they will always be easy to get! Also, no matter what the bad people in this world will always have the need for guns, so we can’t take them away from the good people right?
WHAT IS YOUR PRICE AMERICA? WHAT ARE YOU WILLING TO GIVE UP? YOUR GUNS? OR YOUR STUDENTS?
Darn. Wish I could edit.
I am the spouse of someone with anxiety/depression. Sorry ’bout that.
Also - “Why is it that just about every person who snaps out and shoots people like this was either on, or recently stopped taking these medications?” That’s a funny, if common way to look at it. Let’s see, why are so many people on the South Beach diet overweight? Did the diet make them fat? Why are so many crazy people being treated for mental illness? I wonder if we took a group of people who who have been diagnosed with mental illness we’d find that they were more likely to take antidepressants and more likely to kill themselves than a group of people with no mental illness.
“Cet”
I am glad to hear that the medications work on your spouse but using your words “incredibly beneficial to the majority of patients who use them” is actually, sorry but I need to use your words again “short-sighted at best and ignorant at worst” when they are only beneficial to 30% of the people who use them. 30% sounds like a minority not a majority. Can you imagine if Toyota or Honda cars worked only 30% of the time, they would be out of business or better yet if gas only worked in 30% of the cars out there. Wow talk about outrage. People would not put up with that. So I ask you, why do we put up with Psych drugs only working on 30% of the people that use them. Sounds a little crazy(pardon the pun) to me. Well until they get their stats up around 90% then I am going to continue to question and challenge them.
Let me get this straight; He buys guns for ‘home protection “, stops taking his medication 3 weeks ago,’making him a little more irritable’, calls her to say goodbye,”which he never does,’ and she doesn’t notice anything different? AND SHE’S STUDYING TO BE A PSYCHOLOGIST?!! AND THIS IS THE GUY SHE KNOWS BEST?!! Maybe she better consider another field, or start telling the truth!!
The antidepressants didn’t make him kill anyone. However, it is quite possible, probable really, that going off them suddenly and not under a doctor’s supervision contributed to him making that choice. Antidepressants aren’t evil, as many seem to think, but they aren’t to be taken lightly either. They may not be for you and deciding not to take them long-term is absolutely an option, but stopping them cold turkey can have disasterous side effects, often much worse than taking them has. If he and his girlfriend, who admitted to urging him to stop taking his meds because they made her nervous, hadn’t insisted on playing doctor, this might not have happened. Let this be a lesson to everyone.
…..I just want to let everyone know its not the medications fault….. I myself have to help with someone(my girlfriend)who is on a ton of anxiety and antidepressant meds. Over the past year of us dating it has been extremely turbulent with many ups and downs. At the same time….we have been trying to find the perfect concoction of medicines for her. A lot of people dont really realize how hard it is to just diagnose someone with anxiety or bipolar disorder or whatever the case may be because each persons brain functions differently and each med reacts differently with the person. It is up to the prescribing doctor and the patient to monitor this closely. So before we go and start blaming medications we need to look at the patient and the doctor. I also want to throw in there that my girlfriend is one of the most loving caring people you would ever meet and she would go to the end of the world for anyone.
JASON, go to a NAMI(National Assoc. for the Mentally Ill) meeting in your local, if you want to disabuse yourself of poorly informed opinions that you and many others currently hold. There you could learn where the proverbial rubber meets the road, that sometimes 30% efficacy is a really big shot at having a life for someone living out every day in the silent misery of knowing that they are wandering in a mental wilderness without hope of normalcy. Its different when you sit across a table from 70 yr. old parents of a 50 yr. old sufferer, telling you what the last 30 yrs. have been like for them and for their child. Until you’ve experienced the heartbreak of a damning diagnosis of mental illness, you really can’t know what the sufferers go through or can anybody else. After years of suffering, 10 % might look huge. Father of an ill son
Bobo - Thank You! I thought I was the only one who got the feeling that Jessica Baty was a bit of a dreamy-eyed idealist. I too think she should seriously rethink her choice in career. Someone so blind to things happening under her nose shouldn’t be entrusted with the responsibility of a social worker or a psychologist.
David,
I am very sorry for your suffering. I am not invalidating your suffering or anybody else’s for that matter. I just believe we all need to take responsibility and make sure these drug companies do more research and to disclose their findings and for patients to try all other options before resorting to psychotropics. As for NAMI oh sorry I mean the APA(American Psychiatry Association), that is a whole different argument. I have a hard time in believing in any institution that comes up with a “disorder” like ADHD for example by a show of hands at conference instead of actually doing the research to prove it exists. Considering the guy that came up with that “disorder” shredded his research when he was asked to reveal it. Hmmm! Yea I think I’ll trust his advice. And no I am not preaching from a soap box, I have seen someone who was “diagnosed” as “manic depressive” who was literally hours from killing himself get off his drugs, change his diet, added exercise and some other non-psychiatric counseling and he is now a normal functioning member of society. So drugs are not always the answer. I am just hoping people try every option available to them before turning to drugs. Because the person that controls your serotonin controls you. And I would hate to see a nation of zombies walking around. Now I do believe that you have tried everything for your son before turning to drugs and nothing worked and now you have no choice. I feel for you I really do and I truly am sorry. Nothing I say is out of spite or ill will. Best wishes to all who suffer and I hope you get the help you need. Whatever that may be.
There are issues on both sides here that are very important. First it is absolutely true that drugs do help a great many people lead better lives. But it is also true that a person may have to suffer a great deal to find the correct drug or mix of drugs to make them feel better. Many people just can’t hack that way of doing hit and miss treatment. It is slow and can take months for drugs to work, side effects to appear and then sometimes they don’t work anymore. The current psuedoscience of psychiatry would have you believe that they understand and can effectively treat anyone who puts in the effort to try different cobinations. The sad reality is that even the finest psychiatrists can’t tell you why a certain drug is causing this or that side effect or why the next drug you try doesn’t work. The danger here is that the collective profession of psychiatry has gotten way too overconfident in their ability to treat people effectively and keep to the hippocratic oath that states “first do no harm”. If this man was having to take three different drugs just to tolerate the side effects of one, then maybe the problem is the one and not the three. In any event, the monitoring doctor, the girlfriend and the family of this man all share in some of the blame as clearly he was in trouble if he was forced to stop the medications. The girlfriend should have notified the doctor at once, and the doctor should have tried to convince the man that he needed to come in and talk about why he felt he needed to stop the drugs. Even then, the problem still remains that we are treating diseases without knowing their cause, with medication that we are not sure even works. This way of doing medicine must stop.
She disgusts me! I feel his girlfriend contributed to the MURDERS, as she contradicted her boyfriend’s doctor’s prescriptions! SHE made the decision, and then he acted erratic after he stopped taking them. She’s not a medical professional. Another armchair ‘doctor’ type I face daily!
I feel she should be held responsible, for contributing to his death, and his actions. I’m on similar drugs, suffering depression and chronic pain. You NEVER stop anything suddenly, without the doctor’s knowledge, and many must be titrated down under doctor’s supervision. I’ve helped to commit a friend of mine who was taking Cymbalta, because it was causing schizo-affective disorder in her. We could never figure out why I was the only one who noticed - but she said it in plain English, that the voices were telling her to kill herself!! Everyone else felt she was making it up. In some people, Cymbalta can cause this incident, and she was taking it to help with chronic pain. She had to be titrated down, and turned out she was Bipolar, and finally received a proper diagnosis. I am thankful with the help of her Psychiatrist, we got her past this horrible stretch, when her main doctor ignored what came out of her mouth, and actually doubled her dose! She’s on 3 meds to help with her depression, on top of her chronic pain now. She actually married after that, and we both promised to never ignore any warnings.
THERE WERE WARNINGS, and that Baty gal needs to stop her college degree. He was being secretive, and she pushed him into doing something he shouldn’t have done, when she wasn’t his doctor nor a professional in the field!
HOLD her as an accessory to Mass murder!
bobby dylan had a song: “TOO much of nuthin’ can make a fella’ mean, he can force one man to walk on coals and another man to eat fire!”
tell ya what, without Jesus all you got is too much of nuthin, this whole society is shipwrecked. I’m sorry for this poor soul that just got eaten alive by devils and and took several souls in his wake. The shrinks can dope up the people and make ‘em look pretty, but in side the vacuum just becomes worse.